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ULS capacity of circular RC column 4

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Agent666

Structural
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
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3,080
Location
NZ
Ok, writing a spreadsheet for checking moment capacity of circular RC column at a given axial load with uniformly distributed longitudinal bars following standard flexible theory. Spreadsheet is to the New Zealand Concrete Standard NZS3101 which generally follows the same theory/methodology as the ACI318 code. For the purposes of the discussion the code doesn't really matter too much.

FYI, the differences between ACI318 & NZS3101 are that there is just a single strength reduction factor of 0.85 vs the different strength reduction factors in ACI depending on the type of failure. The α1 and β1 factors on the rectangular Whitney stress block are also ever so slightly different (probably just a metric/imperial thing), but for the purposes of the exercise can be taken as 0.85 for both.

So the crux of the question is that after writing the spreadsheet and going on and verifying it using SPColumn (Link), I get the exact same answer to a few decimal places with zero axial load for any cross sections, so all good there.

However when I factor in the axial load the answer starts to differ by a small margin (not much only a few percent). Depending on the arrangement SPColumn is generally giving me a few percent higher capacity, so the question is I think I am probably going slightly wrong somewhere, but for the life of me I cannot figure out where!

SPColumn allows a user to manually adjust the strength reduction factors, and the α1 and β1 factors. So I should be getting the exact same answer (on the assumption that the folks who write commercial software get it right 99% of the time (right?). But because SPColumn is written for ACI318 maybe there is something also going on in the background relating to the way ACI318 works out the capacity that I'm not factoring in. Perhaps SPColumn approximates the circular shape as a series of trapezoids, but then I would expect a lower capacity.

General procedure I'm following is outlined as follows:-

1. determine bar center line set out based on cover, column diameter, spiral diameter & longitudinal bar diameter

2. from bar set out determine depth of bar from the extreme compression fiber (i.e. say the top of the section)

3. Assemble a series of equations to determine the stress in relation to the distance from the neutral axis depth 'c' assuming the limiting concrete compression strain of 0.003 is reached at the extreme compression fibre at the ultimate capacity
3a. For bars within the compression block depth 'a' determine the effective steel stress (i.e. actual bar stress minus (α1 x f'c)). This enables the compression force and more importantly the centroid of the compression area to be determined in the concrete ignoring the bars
3b. For bars between the compression block depth and the neutral axis the bars are still in compression but the actual steel stress is determined based on the strain.
3c. For bars below the neutral axis the bars are in tension, the bar strain is determined, if the strain is greater than the steel yield strain, the bars are assumed to be stressed to their yield stress, if not the actual stress is determined (actual stress = E x strain)
3d. Based on knowing the compression depth 'a' work out the area and depth to the centroid of a rectangular stress block in the shape of a circular segment.

4. Determine the forces in the concrete, and each bar

5. Sum the bar forces, concrete force and axial load (axial load assumed to act at the plastic centroid, i.e. center of column for circular column) which must equal zero for internal equilibrium.

6. Solve for the compression block depth 'a' using excels goalseek function based on the result of step 5 equaling zero

7. determine moment capacity by summing the component bar forces/concrete forces/axial load x their respective lever arms from any arbitrary location

8. multiply this moment capacity x the appropriate strength reduction factor.

Anyone see anything wrong in this approach that might account for the differences when the axial load is considered?

Its worth pointing out I've also downloaded a number of other free or demo spreadsheets from the net, all of which have a slight variations on the answer from SPColumn as well!
 
Is it possible that SP column is orienting the cage differently than you are? The effect of that would get amplified with increasing axial load as the lever arm on the forces would be reduced.

For several reasons, I'd be curious to know if having more verts reduces the discrepancy.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
 
I've got the orientation correct. I know this because I get the exact capacity at zero axial load about each axis for a non symmetric bar layout.

I'll check out the other suggestion. So far I've been sticking to a couple of practical arrangements that I know the capacity of, but I'll increase the number of bars and see if I get the same deviation.

I'd have to recheck but I think I was also getting a lower capacity than SPColumn at lower axial loads, but slightly higher at higher levels approaching the upper limit. (if that helps to diagnose)

I'm also assuming neutral axis depth = a/beta1. On the assumption that irrespective of the shape the strain is still linear.

 
Perhaps test with pure axial load to ensure that areas and modular ratio are being treated identically?

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
 
Could you either post your spreadsheet, or post details of a few examples. I would like to compare it with my spreadsheet. You can download mine from the link below if you want; search for ULS design functions.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
 
Unless I'm mistaken or misinterpreting your post, the modular ratio doesn't come into calculating the ultimate capacity??

You only need the modular ratio if you are calculating the 'cracked' second moment of area, and hence the effective section modulus at the serviceability limit state..... i.e. transform to one material, work out equivalent second moment of area, etc.


 
IDS, I already have yours, it was one of the spreadsheets I downloaded before posting to have another opinion :)

Because you assume that the section is made up of a number of trapezoid 'slices' it doesn't perfectly model the circular segment compression block shape and centroid (depending on how refined you get with defining the section and bar layout though). I have not put a really highly refined section in your spreadsheet yet to check if it agrees one way or the other.

A copy of the relevant isolated calculations are attached for what its worth. Entry cells highlighted grey.

For the arrangement in the spreadsheet:-

In SPColumn for N* = 0kN / ΦMn = 556.71kNm
In my checks for N* = 0kN / ΦMn = 556.60kNm

In SPColumn for N* = 1000kN / ΦMn = 630.70kNm
In my checks for N* = 1000kN / ΦMn = 621.34kNm

In SPColumn for N* = 2500kN / ΦMn = 633.19kNm
In my checks for N* = 2500kN / ΦMn = 639.10kNm

These numbers are a bit closer than some of the arrangements I have been looking at but you get the idea.

Its close enough for my liking and are happy to accept on that basis, but I'm wondering why the difference exists and I like to have the confidence I have the exact answer for something that you are able to calculate an exact answer for based on the assumed theory (which obviously includes some assumptions due to rectangular stress block approach)!
With less bars the difference in numbers is larger.
 
 http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=e2544cef-033e-4264-9f8c-db39246fcacb&file=bending_check_-_engtips.xlsm
Modular ratio wasn't the right way to say it. I'd want to know that both systems are treating bar areas, and the corresponding concrete voids, the same way. I'd think that a pure axial test would confirm or deny that.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
 
Agent666 - Using my spreadsheet, after making some adjustments discussed below, I have set up for the column described above, then adjusted the applied axial load so that the depth of the stress block is exactly the same as in your calculations. Doing that I get exactly the same steel stresses, forces and moments as you, so our adjustments for concrete displaced by steel in the compression zone must be the same. I also agree exactly with your concrete force and moment calculations, checking the actual shape rather than the trapezoidal layers used in my spreadsheet. On that basis, I would say that your basic calculations are correct.

The main difference between my spreadsheet and yours (other than you are using the exact circular segment area) is that I treat the axial load to be balanced as being phi.N*, rather than N*. In other words I am treating the axial load as being constant eccentricity and varying magnitude, whereas your calculation treats it as being constant magnitude and varying eccentricity.

The other difference is that my spreadsheet adjusts the stress block depth factor using:
If fcu > 28 Then
G = G - 0.05 * (fcu - 28) / 7
If G < 0.65 Then G = 0.65
End If

The difference in the axial load factor may account for your differences from SP Column, since it makes no difference at zero axial load.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
 
Agent666 - If on your spreadsheet I divide the axial force by 0.85, so that the axial force in the calculation is the same as my spreadsheet uses (and possibly the same as SP Column), then I get:

For N* = 1000/0.85 PhiMu = 630.0 kNm
For N* = 2500/0.85 PhiMu = 633.1 kNm

So that's the same order of agreement you got for the 0 axial load case.

My guess for the differences in the fourth significant figure is that maybe they make some deduction from the force in the bars that are below the base of the stress block but above the neutral axis.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
 
Not wishing to throw a spanner into the works on this one, but the rectangular stress block is really very inaccurate for anything other than rectangular shaped concrete sections. The factors defining the depth and concrete strength for it are based on a parallel sided section.

Especially in cases where the concrete section reduces in width as the concrete stress increases, the rectangular stress block can be very un-conservative. The biggest error occurs in the region central region of the column interaction diagram from decompression to balanced load points but it does affect the whole interaction diagram.

It is amazing how far the position of the decompression point is out compared to using a more accurate concrete stress/strain curve.

Some codes allow for this by adjusting the curve constants, eg Eurocode adjusts them for sections where the section width reduces towards the compression face.
 
rapt said:
but the rectangular stress block is really very inaccurate for anything other than rectangular shaped concrete sections

I totally agree, and if the stress factor is not adjusted down for high strength concretes (which have a near triangular stress distribution, rather than parabolic-rectangular) it is even worse.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
 
IDS a star for you, the divide the axial load by phi=0.85 was what I was missing in my checks! I was not comparing a consistent moment and axial load without the strength reduction factor applied. It does my head in a little thinking about it, but I can see it is the correct approach (comparing apples with apples).

Rapt, i'll check out the Eurocode provisions which might apply to the circular case.

 
Agent666,

I am not suggesting that the Eurocode solution gives the correct result either, just that it recognises the problem and tries to make an allowance for it.

The best solution for that problem and the one that IDS mentioned for high strength concrete is to use a good curvilinear stress/strain curve that allows for both effects. The Eurocode curvilinear stress/strain curve for concrete will do this for you. There are probably others that will allow for it.
 
This business with the non-parallel sided compression block issues is just as much an issue with the triangular compression block in a biaxially loaded rectangular column as it is with a circular column, correct?

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
 
This business with the non-parallel sided compression block issues is just as much an issue with the triangular compression block in a biaxially loaded rectangular column as it is with a circular column, correct?

Even more so.

How it works out when combined with the standard simplified method of designing for biaxial moments I am not sure though.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
 
Yes, it is even worse with a triangular element as the rate of change of width is very gentle at the start for a circle but is immediate for a triangle.

The simplified methods for biaxial have other problems from my calculations. The ones that look at combining the 2 orthogonal directions about the 2 major axes face real problems even with square columns. They were based on steel design logic from what I can tell, where the strength reduction factors are the same no matter what the element orientation.

However, with a concrete column, the strength reduction factors are dependant on section ductility. For ease of discussion, if you look at it in terms of an overall section strength reduction factor as ACI/AS codes do, the factor can vary from .8 to .6 depending on ductility. If you look at the strength of a square column about a major axis, its strength reduction factor may be .8 as it is still ductile. But if you then look at it at 45 degrees rotation, with the peak of the triangle in the highest compression strain region, the section then becomes much less ductile (according to code definitions of ductility) and the reduction factor then reduces and could easily be as low as .6.
However, if you use the method combining the orthogonal capacities it uses .8 in both directions, so the combined case is based on a strength reduction factor of .8!

So an accurate biaxial check at 45 degree rotation could easily show a 25% or more reduction in capacity compared to the combination method.
 
I admit I hadn't thought about the effect of bi-axial bending on the reduction factor.

It seems they get around this in NZ by using the same reduction factor for tension and compression controlled sections.

But having just come back from looking at loads of photographs of failed columns in Christchurch at the Earthquake Engineering Conference, I am not sure that's such a great idea.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
 
The largest structures that collapsed in the Christchurch earthquakes had an almost criminal amount of confinement. I think from memory one of the buildings (the CTV building) had 400 diameter columns with 6 20mm bars with an R6 spiral at 200mm ctrs. The drawings are somewhere on the royal commission website, reviewing them you will no doubt find a lot more that's wrong than just the columns. Link

From 1982 to 1995 there was the introduction of significantly lower levels of confinement in columns in NZ that weren't part of the lateral load resisting system. This lead to a lot of non ductile columns being constructed. It's been corrected since.


I assume by the curvilinear stress/strain relationship you are referring to the first method for stress/strain relationship from eurocode (screenshot attached). The 10% reduction due to decreasing width which is a page or two on in eurocode, only seems to apply to using the rectangular stress block unless I'm reading it wrong?
 
 http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=7ebd3b11-7a39-481d-bef9-874044b246e0&file=Screenshot_2015-11-10-21-28-24.png
Very interesting thread. One I'll be watching with a keen eye.

 
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