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Tie the Buddha Down
- Thread starter KootK
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #2
Crap. Pushed submit before I was done somehow...
The statue superstructure will be designed by the statue supplier and will bear some resemblance to a transmission tower. The base that the statue will sit upon will be four concrete columns built integrally with a concrete shaft, somewhat like an elevator shaft. The columns and shaft will be constructed within an one story concrete bunker of sorts. Folks can go in there to perform various religious activities.
My questions are:
1) Is there anything special that we should consider in the design of the connection between the superstructure and the base? Fatigue? Should the anchor bolts be prestressed? Conceptually, this doesn't seem fundamentally different from a braced frame in any mid-rise building.
2) Our original contract excluded the design of the connection between the superstructure frame and the base. That was to be done by the statue supplier. I liked that arrangement because it put the responsibility for the connection with the party that I felt was best suited to design the connection. Recent events have led me to believe that I might be better suited to designing the connection. Any thoughts? Should I insist on doing the connection? Should I stand back from a liability perspective?
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
The statue superstructure will be designed by the statue supplier and will bear some resemblance to a transmission tower. The base that the statue will sit upon will be four concrete columns built integrally with a concrete shaft, somewhat like an elevator shaft. The columns and shaft will be constructed within an one story concrete bunker of sorts. Folks can go in there to perform various religious activities.
My questions are:
1) Is there anything special that we should consider in the design of the connection between the superstructure and the base? Fatigue? Should the anchor bolts be prestressed? Conceptually, this doesn't seem fundamentally different from a braced frame in any mid-rise building.
2) Our original contract excluded the design of the connection between the superstructure frame and the base. That was to be done by the statue supplier. I liked that arrangement because it put the responsibility for the connection with the party that I felt was best suited to design the connection. Recent events have led me to believe that I might be better suited to designing the connection. Any thoughts? Should I insist on doing the connection? Should I stand back from a liability perspective?
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
CELinOttawa
Structural
Neat... To be built in China? The markings look Chinese, but I thought this sort of icon was a no-no for the communist state.
By Chinese a company for somewhere else?
By Chinese a company for somewhere else?
- Thread starter
- #4
To be erected in Canada by a predominantly Vietnamese Buddhist congregation. Design and fabrication of the statue will be done jointly in Japan and China (good call on that). Copper and structural steel for the most part.
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
- Thread starter
- #5
msquared48
Structural
I see no interstitial horizontal diaphragms or cabled X-bracing as with the vertical planes. I doubt that the decorative skin can resist torsion...
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
msquared48
Structural
Copper, huh?
Sounds like a prime target for copper thieves!
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
Sounds like a prime target for copper thieves!
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
CELinOttawa
Structural
Are the panel points in the picture purposefully avoided by the bracing rods? This can't be a seismic solution for a structure that is definitely NOT meant to deform under action/in service.
I echo Mike's concerns, and add the following:
- Who is responsible to separate/isolate/break dissimilar metal contact?
- Who is responsible for setting the wind and seismic loads?
- Who is responsible to allow for / design against the different coefficients of thermal expansion? I have a mental image of the skin just crumpling on a hot day...
More concerns are likely to follow. This is an interesting one Kootk! :jealous:
I echo Mike's concerns, and add the following:
- Who is responsible to separate/isolate/break dissimilar metal contact?
- Who is responsible for setting the wind and seismic loads?
- Who is responsible to allow for / design against the different coefficients of thermal expansion? I have a mental image of the skin just crumpling on a hot day...
More concerns are likely to follow. This is an interesting one Kootk! :jealous:
- Thread starter
- #9
I'm content to let the statue designers sort out the details of their scope for now. Early days. I'm curious though Mike: why do you feel that horizontal bracing/diaphragms are necessary? I view the skeleton as just a big braced tube capable of resisting torsion sans diaphragm(s). There are some transmission towers near my house that are built this way (diaphragmless).
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
CELinOttawa
Structural
The budda is not a tube as soon as any of the material folds back upon itself... Which from the picture, it does. A lot.
Better to think about this as a stressed skin, like an aircraft. I do agree that the responsibility isn't your's on that point, but I stand by my questions. I hope your scope is *very* well spelled out.
Better to think about this as a stressed skin, like an aircraft. I do agree that the responsibility isn't your's on that point, but I stand by my questions. I hope your scope is *very* well spelled out.
- Thread starter
- #11
The skin is not a competent structural tube but the structural steel tube within is. Or at least it's intended to be. Are you guys worried about horizontal bracing between the skin and structural steel tube? My expectation is that, when all is said and done, the outriggers with either be braced horizontally or made beefy enough that the don't require it.
All concerns regarding the design of the superstructure will be the responsibility of... the designer of the superstructure. Now how about some answers to my specific questions regarding the base connections?
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
All concerns regarding the design of the superstructure will be the responsibility of... the designer of the superstructure. Now how about some answers to my specific questions regarding the base connections?
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
msquared48
Structural
KootK:
It looks to me like the skin could be of pounded copper, attached by unknown spirit forces to the materialistic steel frame.![[shocked]](/data/assets/smilies/shocked.gif "[shocked] [shocked]")
I personally do not think of copper as a structural material, especially for the skin of an 11 story building. Personally, I feel that there will have to be something more here structurally...![[idea]](/data/assets/smilies/idea.gif "[idea] [idea]")
I guess a good model to investigate would be the Statue of Liberty...
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
It looks to me like the skin could be of pounded copper, attached by unknown spirit forces to the materialistic steel frame.
I personally do not think of copper as a structural material, especially for the skin of an 11 story building. Personally, I feel that there will have to be something more here structurally...
I guess a good model to investigate would be the Statue of Liberty...
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
- Thread starter
- #13
How about this: you guys agree to focus all future comments on the portion of the structure below the sandals; in return, when the shop drawing show up, I'll post them here for the group to devour mercilessly.
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
CELinOttawa
Structural
Lol... I like it Kootk, and I am very impressed with your patience.
DIWYDAG anchor rods. Treat this as if it were be base of a large bridge, and anchor the living hell out of the thing.
I would be looking for long rods to something very solid, either competent bedrock or large mass pour concrete foundation. For the connections themselves I'd be keen to see a good old thick plate (like a multi-ply, multiple inch), or a casting assembly. Don't laugh; Custom cast assemblies have come way down in price, and are very effective. I'd use traditional framing right down to the base, and then "capture" the bottom with the casting or custom steel base assembly.
Either way, you need to have the connection to the base be capable of taking all overstrengths. I'd effectively design this like the base of almost any building, if you're willing to have lots of structure to foundation connections, and like a couple of large bridge piers, if you're keen to reduce the number of connections to the fewest possible.
DIWYDAG anchor rods. Treat this as if it were be base of a large bridge, and anchor the living hell out of the thing.
I would be looking for long rods to something very solid, either competent bedrock or large mass pour concrete foundation. For the connections themselves I'd be keen to see a good old thick plate (like a multi-ply, multiple inch), or a casting assembly. Don't laugh; Custom cast assemblies have come way down in price, and are very effective. I'd use traditional framing right down to the base, and then "capture" the bottom with the casting or custom steel base assembly.
Either way, you need to have the connection to the base be capable of taking all overstrengths. I'd effectively design this like the base of almost any building, if you're willing to have lots of structure to foundation connections, and like a couple of large bridge piers, if you're keen to reduce the number of connections to the fewest possible.
How is this structure supposed to handle wind loads? The base looks too wimpy for that.
TTFN
faq731-376
Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529
Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
TTFN
faq731-376
Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529
Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
msquared48
Structural
Well... it is sketch... from China.
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
msquared48
Structural
Let's all sing it together now... A 1 and a 2 and a 3 and a...
Tie me Budda man down sport, tie me Budda man down....
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
Tie me Budda man down sport, tie me Budda man down....
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
- Thread starter
- #19
Nice Mike...
Alright, Dywidags if I have say. Prestressed?
@IR: statue frame sits on shaft made from 300 walls and four 800 x 800 columns in corners. Shaft sits on monster pad footing. Ignore the base in the sketch.
So far, the only difference between this and a 6' statue is scale. As structural engineers, it's our prerogative not to be intimidated by scale.
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
Alright, Dywidags if I have say. Prestressed?
@IR: statue frame sits on shaft made from 300 walls and four 800 x 800 columns in corners. Shaft sits on monster pad footing. Ignore the base in the sketch.
So far, the only difference between this and a 6' statue is scale. As structural engineers, it's our prerogative not to be intimidated by scale.
The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.
CELinOttawa
Structural
Yes, prestressed... WITH the debonded length. Often contractors and inexperienced teams think that you can bond the full length, but the failure mechanism them involved isn't what you want.
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