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Things are Starting to Warm Up Part III 6
- Thread starter dik
- Start date
ah! an engineering "solution" !
a "problem" with the transporter ... why do you need to step onto a pad to leave (or return to) the ship but the other end of the transport is anywhere (with no height incumbrance, with stable floors) ?? and how come the stance changes (you arrive on the ship standing, or sometimes lying, on the floor ?
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
a "problem" with the transporter ... why do you need to step onto a pad to leave (or return to) the ship but the other end of the transport is anywhere (with no height incumbrance, with stable floors) ?? and how come the stance changes (you arrive on the ship standing, or sometimes lying, on the floor ?
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
Guest102023
Materials
You can have all the ‘engineering solutions’ you want, but they need to pass through the sphincter called governments. (Considering governments are populated by a-holes who talk a lot of sh!t, I think sphincter is an apt metaphor.)
Before you even hit that barrier there is the practical barrier of too much cost and too little time. By inaction we have decreased our options and increased the scale of the disruption.
Oh I should add, the crisis is not just greenhouse gases, but habitat loss, ecosystem destruction, accelerating species extinction, plastics and forever chemical proliferation, unsustainable agricultural practices, wars, urbanization, air pollution, corruption, various health epidemics (Covid, opioids, diabetes, cancer, respiratory illness). Probably the most acute issue is the group mental illness known as the internet, specifically ’social’ media. These are all interrelated.
Democracy is not fit for purpose, totalitarian regimes even less so.
Until we figure out self-governing and self-regulation, and turn away from our deeply ingrained perpetual growth mindset, events and natural consequences will determine what the outcome looks like. Right now prospects do not look good.
Before you even hit that barrier there is the practical barrier of too much cost and too little time. By inaction we have decreased our options and increased the scale of the disruption.
Oh I should add, the crisis is not just greenhouse gases, but habitat loss, ecosystem destruction, accelerating species extinction, plastics and forever chemical proliferation, unsustainable agricultural practices, wars, urbanization, air pollution, corruption, various health epidemics (Covid, opioids, diabetes, cancer, respiratory illness). Probably the most acute issue is the group mental illness known as the internet, specifically ’social’ media. These are all interrelated.
Democracy is not fit for purpose, totalitarian regimes even less so.
Until we figure out self-governing and self-regulation, and turn away from our deeply ingrained perpetual growth mindset, events and natural consequences will determine what the outcome looks like. Right now prospects do not look good.
"Oh I should add, the crisis is not just greenhouse gases, but ..." completely agree. Human interference with the natural world is multi-facetted. But this is too complicated to address so people pick a single issue ... which may not be the critical one. I agree that sometime in the future Nature is going to stage her own intervention !
That said, lets enjoy the time we have. (there's some sarcasm for you ... watch the brick-bats come flying !)
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
That said, lets enjoy the time we have. (there's some sarcasm for you ... watch the brick-bats come flying !)
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
- Thread starter
- #184
-
1
- Thread starter
- #185
choosing not to choose (or to act in this case) is a choice.
It happens everywhere in life ... you can see a potential problem forming ahead.
Carry on regardless (or irregardless) and encounter the problem, and people say "I told you so".
Carry on and don't encounter the problem and people say "I told you so".
we tend to be very smart in hindsight.
How did we react to CFCs in the 90s ?
The key was there were alternatives that were acceptable.
Maybe China and India (and Russia ?) are still using CFCs, but most of the developed nations aren't (AFAIK)
AFAIK the reduction is (possibly) having a good result (I'm not sure about the causal link, maybe the ozone hole would have "repaired" itself without us).
Maybe the ozone "hole" was a natural thing going about it's natural cycles. Maybe finding ionised Cl is directly linked to our CFCs and so we did the right thing.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
It happens everywhere in life ... you can see a potential problem forming ahead.
Carry on regardless (or irregardless) and encounter the problem, and people say "I told you so".
Carry on and don't encounter the problem and people say "I told you so".
we tend to be very smart in hindsight.
How did we react to CFCs in the 90s ?
The key was there were alternatives that were acceptable.
Maybe China and India (and Russia ?) are still using CFCs, but most of the developed nations aren't (AFAIK)
AFAIK the reduction is (possibly) having a good result (I'm not sure about the causal link, maybe the ozone hole would have "repaired" itself without us).
Maybe the ozone "hole" was a natural thing going about it's natural cycles. Maybe finding ionised Cl is directly linked to our CFCs and so we did the right thing.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
- Thread starter
- #187
These countries are used as an excuse for doing nothing... In reality the US per captia carbon footprint is nearly twice that of China and the Indian one is nearly 1/10. I'm not sure how Russia is... Canada's per capita value is higher than the US.
Added Russia...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
- Thread starter
- #189
Guest102023
Materials
The Montreal Protocol show that concerted effort and international cooperation is possible, any it proved effective. Sadly though it seems to be an exception.
People tracking the ozone layer found a change in the trend in 2010 that showed that CFCs were being produced in east Asia. This was eventually linked to rogue factories in China, which fits with the widespread industrial corruption there.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
People tracking the ozone layer found a change in the trend in 2010 that showed that CFCs were being produced in east Asia. This was eventually linked to rogue factories in China, which fits with the widespread industrial corruption there.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
accordin to wiki ...
"Because the only CFCs available to countries adhering to the treaty is from recycling, their prices have increased considerably. A worldwide end to production should also terminate the smuggling of this material. However, there are current CFC smuggling issues, as recognized by the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) in a 2006 report titled "Illegal Trade in Ozone Depleting Substances". UNEP estimates that between 16,000–38,000 tonnes of CFCs passed through the black market in the mid-1990s. The report estimated between 7,000 and 14,000 tonnes of CFCs are smuggled annually into developing countries. Asian countries are those with the most smuggling; as of 2007, China, India and South Korea were found to account for around 70% of global CFC production,[20] South Korea later to ban CFC production in 2010.[21] Possible reasons for continued CFC smuggling were also examined: the report noted that many banned CFC producing products have long lifespans and continue to operate. The cost of replacing the equipment of these items is sometimes cheaper than outfitting them with a more ozone-friendly appliance. Additionally, CFC smuggling is not considered a significant issue, so the perceived penalties for smuggling are low. In 2018 public attention was drawn to the issue, that at an unknown place in east Asia an estimated amount of 13,000 metric tons annually of CFCs have been produced since about 2012 in violation of the protocol.[22][23] While the eventual phaseout of CFCs is likely, efforts are being taken to stem these current non-compliance problems."
and apparently we've "only" reduced CFC output by 10% ?? ...
but let's say we had international action and helped address the problem ?
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
"Because the only CFCs available to countries adhering to the treaty is from recycling, their prices have increased considerably. A worldwide end to production should also terminate the smuggling of this material. However, there are current CFC smuggling issues, as recognized by the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) in a 2006 report titled "Illegal Trade in Ozone Depleting Substances". UNEP estimates that between 16,000–38,000 tonnes of CFCs passed through the black market in the mid-1990s. The report estimated between 7,000 and 14,000 tonnes of CFCs are smuggled annually into developing countries. Asian countries are those with the most smuggling; as of 2007, China, India and South Korea were found to account for around 70% of global CFC production,[20] South Korea later to ban CFC production in 2010.[21] Possible reasons for continued CFC smuggling were also examined: the report noted that many banned CFC producing products have long lifespans and continue to operate. The cost of replacing the equipment of these items is sometimes cheaper than outfitting them with a more ozone-friendly appliance. Additionally, CFC smuggling is not considered a significant issue, so the perceived penalties for smuggling are low. In 2018 public attention was drawn to the issue, that at an unknown place in east Asia an estimated amount of 13,000 metric tons annually of CFCs have been produced since about 2012 in violation of the protocol.[22][23] While the eventual phaseout of CFCs is likely, efforts are being taken to stem these current non-compliance problems."
and apparently we've "only" reduced CFC output by 10% ?? ...
but let's say we had international action and helped address the problem ?
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
- Thread starter
- #192
...and they fiddled while Rome burned. ![[pipe]](/data/assets/smilies/pipe.gif "[pipe] [pipe]")
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
With only a reduction of 10% in CFC I wonder what the additional contribution of CO2 due to less efficient refrigerants.
dik said:
So is the climate emergency here right now? Or can we expect it in future?
If it's here right now, someone can surely provide statistics showing how today's fires, floods, droughts are now markedly worse and/or more frequent than the ones we had in the past?
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
Today's seasonal events will only get worse as the seasons get longer. All of the seasons 
Guest102023
Materials
You might get the impression that the Guardian overstates the severity, but it is most of the other MSM outlets that understate it or actively downplay it.
People demand happy news, cat videos, celeb stories, and the scoop on the latest scandal. They don't want to hear about something that might permanently cramp the only lifestyle they know or can imagine.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
People demand happy news, cat videos, celeb stories, and the scoop on the latest scandal. They don't want to hear about something that might permanently cramp the only lifestyle they know or can imagine.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
You've got that one backwards. People prefer bad news.
It even has a name, "negativity bias".
Dik?
It even has a name, "negativity bias".
Dik?
Guest102023
Materials
Your life’s mission appears to be proving I have everything backwards.
I know one thing, I’m on the right side of history. I invite you to join us there.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
I know one thing, I’m on the right side of history. I invite you to join us there.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
History says that nothing is unprecedented. You're trying to cement yourself as being in the right side of the future all while lambasting the right.
Guest102023
Materials
Translation please.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
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