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Things are Starting to Warm/Heat Up Part IV 9
- Thread starter dik
- Start date
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
It takes heat to get the moisture into the atmosphere...
I expect rainfall patterns will change ... less in places, more in others, and at different times. This will probably make things difficult for famers, but I expect we'll adapt.
We do know that higher CO2 increases crop yields, so there's that.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
We do know that higher CO2 increases crop yields, so there's that.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
I don't understand the logic. CO2 has an insulating effect. We insulate our homes to make their inside weather more consistent and predictable. Why would CO2 insulation be different on Earth?
- Thread starter
- #344
Maybe it's insulating effect is causing the earth to get warmer? On a positive note? One of the key actions on climate change is going to have to be a real cutback in things that produce it. ![[ponder]](/data/assets/smilies/ponder.gif "[ponder] [ponder]")
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
TBE, if you can't see the difference between a small system like a house and a vastly complicated system like planetary weather (with so many interactions that we don't understand in detail, if at all), then IDK.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
We have to start small to build our understanding. If insulation evens out the conditions in your home, why wouldn't it do the same on Earth? It seems like AGW should make the weather less severe. It's the temperature differences between the equator and the poles that cause big storms to form.
- Thread starter
- #347
That's a start, Tug... massive insulation and sealed homes to reduce heating requirements in cold climates and reduce cooling requirements in hot climates. Just one of many things. No one seems to realise it, but there has to be a real reduction in travel... both by car and by aeroplane. You wonder about putting all that money into infrastructure that may not be there.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
I'll need some clarification on that comment.
"why wouldn't it do the same on Earth?" ... 'cause the Earth's system is way more complicated than a house, with massive sinks and sources.
Sure you can use a house as a small system to build our understanding of thermodynamics, and yes you can take generalisations from the house model and apply them to the world model. I'd've thought that the main thing more insulation does is to isolate the inner system from the outside. I would not have thought that adding insultation (to the roof and walls) would even out the heat from the kitchen (stove). Sure, eventually the heat will even out, but not because of insulation.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
Sure you can use a house as a small system to build our understanding of thermodynamics, and yes you can take generalisations from the house model and apply them to the world model. I'd've thought that the main thing more insulation does is to isolate the inner system from the outside. I would not have thought that adding insultation (to the roof and walls) would even out the heat from the kitchen (stove). Sure, eventually the heat will even out, but not because of insulation.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
- Thread starter
- #350
Tug...Clarification is not required. As I noted before, we’re in new territory. We have no idea of where this will take us. On a positive side, it could be a natural occurrence, a mere blip on the geologic time scale. On the other hand, it can have a major upset to the lives we have been living with impacts to be felt everywhere. Once this thing gets ‘out of hand’ we have no idea of how severe it can get. That’s the big problem.
We not only have to find alternative energy sources to fossil fuel, but we have to reduce our consumption. This means cutting back on transportation, automobile as well as air travel. There will have to be major cutbacks. It’s going to cost a fortune; why are we spending money on infrastructure for roads, etc. and air transport? They may be things of the past. Local produce may become the thing of the future so there is not added transportation cost. Manufactured items will have to have a built in longevity and not obsolescence. We can no longer afford to be wasteful. With obsolescence out of the picture, more things will be manufactured locally to reduce costs. The impact could be enormous. What happens to all the manufacturing jobs? With lack of water in some of the major food crop areas, what happens to the food supply? What actions will the ‘starving’ people undertake? Friendly or violent? The problem isn’t just local, it’s global. If things get serious enough, it will lead to global unrest. It could get real ugly.
The example I gave about housing insulation isn’t far fetched. For the last couple of decades Canada has slowly been increasing the insulation requirements for construction. The insulation helps for heating and cooling. Canada’s cooler winters have a major impact on home insulation. Increased heating costs will become a major household cost item.
If the governments are making any plans to address the potential problems, they’re keeping it pretty secret. One of their few legitimate purposes is to look after the long term interests of ‘the people’. They appear to have failed miserably. You see how well the government handled the Covid problem. Covid could pale in comparison. I actually paid my son for permission to use his statement for a tagline; I think it's very fitting.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
We not only have to find alternative energy sources to fossil fuel, but we have to reduce our consumption. This means cutting back on transportation, automobile as well as air travel. There will have to be major cutbacks. It’s going to cost a fortune; why are we spending money on infrastructure for roads, etc. and air transport? They may be things of the past. Local produce may become the thing of the future so there is not added transportation cost. Manufactured items will have to have a built in longevity and not obsolescence. We can no longer afford to be wasteful. With obsolescence out of the picture, more things will be manufactured locally to reduce costs. The impact could be enormous. What happens to all the manufacturing jobs? With lack of water in some of the major food crop areas, what happens to the food supply? What actions will the ‘starving’ people undertake? Friendly or violent? The problem isn’t just local, it’s global. If things get serious enough, it will lead to global unrest. It could get real ugly.
The example I gave about housing insulation isn’t far fetched. For the last couple of decades Canada has slowly been increasing the insulation requirements for construction. The insulation helps for heating and cooling. Canada’s cooler winters have a major impact on home insulation. Increased heating costs will become a major household cost item.
If the governments are making any plans to address the potential problems, they’re keeping it pretty secret. One of their few legitimate purposes is to look after the long term interests of ‘the people’. They appear to have failed miserably. You see how well the government handled the Covid problem. Covid could pale in comparison. I actually paid my son for permission to use his statement for a tagline; I think it's very fitting.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
dik ... man, we're almost on the same page!?
we don't know where this is going, or even if CO2 is THE issue if "this" is man's impact on the environment.
sure the politics may restrict travel but I think that is a long way off. sure the politics may push for local production, but that is such a massive change I think this too is a long way off.
for the immediate future (my lifetime) I see us optimising the systems we have now, more renewable sources, hopefully less reliance on fossil fuels, maybe a moratorium on coal or maybe such envoronmental protections as to make coal uneconomic ??
either we'll get past this problem (and on to the next ?) or we won't (and civil unrest we result in the collapse of our civilisation).
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
we don't know where this is going, or even if CO2 is THE issue if "this" is man's impact on the environment.
sure the politics may restrict travel but I think that is a long way off. sure the politics may push for local production, but that is such a massive change I think this too is a long way off.
for the immediate future (my lifetime) I see us optimising the systems we have now, more renewable sources, hopefully less reliance on fossil fuels, maybe a moratorium on coal or maybe such envoronmental protections as to make coal uneconomic ??
either we'll get past this problem (and on to the next ?) or we won't (and civil unrest we result in the collapse of our civilisation).
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
- Thread starter
- #352
CO2 is the main issue... As far as time goes... there has been a marked change in the last decade... I don't know what the next one will be like and if it will be worse or worse by a magnitude of change... it may already be too late. Postponing things by a decade will not likely bring a meaningful change. You may be just delaying a real ugly, and making it uglier by delaying. A 'long way off' may only be a decade... we just have to wait and find out.
If the politicians were serious about it, the next COP conference would be by video, and not a mass meeting. They have no idea of what they are doing... just a big political 'circle jerk' where you have a bunch of politicians standing in a circle, congradulating themselves on what a marvelous job they are doing.
It's not promising... I saw how the world reacted to Covid, and it wasn't good.![[pipe]](/data/assets/smilies/pipe.gif "[pipe] [pipe]")
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
If the politicians were serious about it, the next COP conference would be by video, and not a mass meeting. They have no idea of what they are doing... just a big political 'circle jerk' where you have a bunch of politicians standing in a circle, congradulating themselves on what a marvelous job they are doing.
It's not promising... I saw how the world reacted to Covid, and it wasn't good.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
how do you Know CO2 is the Main issue ? 'cause that's what all the links are telling you ?
how about things that we're not really looking at ? land use, species decline, miscellaneous malicious microbes ?? COVID round 2 ??
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
how about things that we're not really looking at ? land use, species decline, miscellaneous malicious microbes ?? COVID round 2 ??
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
- Thread starter
- #354
CO2 is the #1 big thing and there is a really good correlation between CO2 levels and the earth's temperature. That's not fake science... it's well established. It's also well established that CO2 levels have risen dramatically in the last century.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
- Thread starter
- #355
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