Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VIII 9

[dik]

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-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SwinnyGG]

Here is the quote, and the data is in the link.

If you actually believe this garbage, you should just lock the door to your underground bunker and turn off your internet. You cannot be saved.

 

[BridgeSmith]

The problem is that we don't know if it's going to happen or how it's going to 'stop'.

That's what I've been saying. I find it odd that you're saying this, but advocating action to mitigate it, anyway. Or were you referring to something other than global warming?

 

[SwinnyGG]

I find it odd that you're saying this, but advocating action to mitigate it, anyway

The point you and TugBoat seem to be missing is that curbing emissions as a whole affects a lot of other things beyond temperatures. It's not about just that. There are benefits to air quality, energy independence, grid investment, energy economy robustness against price swings, etc etc etc.

Any negative consequences - and I don't disagree that there are some - are short term consequences that won't matter 100 years from now, while the benefits will.

Y'all seem determined not to look at the consequences of any choice any further out than about 2 weeks. Which is why other people are baffled by your point of view.

 

[BridgeSmith]

The point you and TugBoat seem to be missing is that curbing emissions as a whole affects a lot of other things beyond temperatures. It's not about just that. There are benefits to air quality, energy independence, grid investment, energy economy robustness against price swings, etc etc etc.

Curbing actual pollution has benefits. Curbing CO2 doesn't help anything other than supposedly mitigating the greenhouse effect.

As far as energy independence, the war on fossil fuels has us going backwards on that one. It's not doing any favors for the economy, either.

Any negative consequences - and I don't disagree that there are some - are short term consequences that won't matter 100 years from now, while the benefits will.

We have no idea what the world, or the climate, will look like in 100 years. Bankrupting our economy to forestall what may (or may not) happen decades from now, does not make sense to me.

Y'all seem determined not to look at the consequences of any choice any further out than about 2 weeks. Which is why other people are baffled by your point of view.

Well, all y'all on your side of the argument seem determined to take extraordinary and detrimental steps to mitigate what you **assume** will be an insurmountable problem decades down the road. That baffles me.

 

[TugboatEng]

SwinnyGG, my point has always been that attempts to curb CO2 emissions seem to do the opposite. Besides, you're living in the 1990's. The climate change movement has been co-opted away and into something completely different. It's not about pollution anymore but environmental justice and social governance.

 

[SwinnyGG]

Curbing actual pollution has benefits. Curbing CO2 doesn't help anything other than supposedly mitigating the greenhouse effect.

I don't particularly care about CO₂, specifically. CO₂ emissions and general 'pollution' are inextricably linked. To attempt to ignore that is obtuse to say the least.

It's not doing any favors for the economy, either.

The economy in the US is as powerful as it has ever been, despite 'climate change' ostriches crying about how terrible it is. This is complete BS.

Bankrupting our economy to forestall what may (or may not) happen decades from now, does not make sense to me.

Investment in infrastructure isn't 'bankrupting our economy'.

This is a completely ridiculous assertion that is fell back upon when there is nowhere else to go.

Well, all y'all on your side of the argument seem determined to take extraordinary and detrimental steps to mitigate what you **assume** will be an insurmountable problem decades down the road. That baffles me.

Long term planning for investment in infrastructure is neither extraordinary, nor is it detrimental.

I do not assume that there is some insurmountable problem at any point. Humans adapt. But there will be a tipping point eventually with regard to fossil fuels - it may be climate driven, it may be geopolitical - and my contention is that diversifying our energy infrastructure over the coming decades means that there is much less probability of a sudden crisis further down the road, no matter what the potential cause of that crisis may be.

The argument that our current energy economy is completely fine, is insulated from any potential source of disruption, and requires zero long term investment is completely ridiculous, and it's the argument you're making if you're arguing against my point of view. I am not Dik. I do not think 2 billion people are going to die in 2024 because sea levels rise a half millimeter.

 

[dik]

That's always been my contention... the problem is, I think we are in trouble, and have no idea of how bad this can get. The weather events of late, may just be a precursor. No one seems to be interested in mitigating it. In addition, there could be some serious geopolitical issues, too.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

And that is one of the major problems. The CO₂ 'blanket' is causing the earth to heat up with some really interesting consequences possibly.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

The argument that our current energy economy is completely fine, is insulated from any potential source of disruption, and requires zero long term investment is completely ridiculous

Nobody is making that argument. My personal argument is that the things we are doing are going to make those problems worse. That's why I said it's better to do nothing at all.

 

[dik]

My concern is that we are not doing enough, and that things are going to get worse.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Meanwhile, there is no credible quantification of reduction from any action that has been taken.

 

[BridgeSmith]

Meanwhile, there is no credible quantification of reduction from any action that has been taken.

...nor any that's been proposed.

 

[dik]

or implementation of any action that may be essential. Everyone's waiting to see what will happen and maybe try to react to it when it does.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

I'm just curious to see what the effects of ENSO later this year.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

You have hundreds of years to compare to.

 

[dik]

Maybe an anomaly... we'll see. It might be an inkling of what is coming. These are huge energy systems...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SwinnyGG]

My personal argument is that the things we are doing are going to make those problems worse

Yeah, we all know that. Your personal argument is categorically wrong. You've made it very, very clear that you will never conduct an impartial review of your own belief system. I suspect that it's because your ego won't allow you to do so, but that's neither here nor there in this context.

Thats why in your reality global warming can't possibly be real, and there's no such thing as a legitimate climate scientist, and climate measurements are easy to take, and on and on.

This is also why you and Dik are of the same cloth. You're operating on the same plane as you-know-who who posts hot garbage all the time.. the only difference is that when challenged, you make even more baseless claims instead of running away.

 

[dik]

Nope... not even close.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

SwinnyGG, you are deliberately misinterpreting my comments to reinforce your biases.

 

[SwinnyGG]

SwinnyGG, you are deliberately misinterpreting my comments to reinforce your biases.

You can think that all you want - but what I'm actually telling you is how you sound to everyone else. You may sound different in your head, but that's now how you're presenting yourself.