The great resignation 19

[MIStructE_IRE]

The pandemic has given me a change of perspective and a change of life priorities. That, in conjunction with engineer’s anxiety and sleepless nights sweating over calculations has me questioning whether or not I want to do this for the rest of my life.

Has anyone else experienced this?

What is a sensible alternative career for a structural engineer?!

 

[IRstuff]

This is interesting; Elizabeth Gilbert, author of Eat, Pray, Love, reminds us that there are those of us that haven't yet found their passion, or simply don't have a passion, and that perhaps following your curiosity might be an equally valid life path.

https://www.oprah.com/video_embed.html?article_id=59798

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[phamENG]

or simply don't have a passion

This is something I've come to grips with over the past year or so. It's not that I don't have a passion...it's that I don't have a professional passion. I'm passionate about my family and ensuring they are as safe and as comfortable as my labors can reasonably make them, but that's about it.

I'm reasonably good at problem solving, and so I've leveraged that into a career in engineer that allows me to provide for my family better than many. For a long time I conflated that with a passion for engineering. Admitting to myself that I'm not passionate about engineering has been very liberating and has allowed me to seek new ways to fulfill goals.

 

[IRstuff]

Admitting to myself that I'm not passionate about engineering has been very liberating and has allowed me to seek new ways to fulfill goals.

Indeed, that's kind of Gilbert's message; "passion bullies" would want, or make, everyone to feel like failures if they haven't found a productive "passion," when that isn't the end-all or be-all.

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[MJB315]

I'm enjoying this thread, so I'll offer a bit from my own experience.

I'm a structural engineer (had an SE license, but let it lapse...still licensed as a PE) in my late 30s. I meandered into the Civil Engineering field mainly due to family history and an aptitude for technology - and then meandered toward structures due to an intuitive feel for physics and a draw toward architecture. I practiced at four firms in two states and picked up a Masters in Civil (structures focus) along the way.

The thing that started to bother me was the problem of "career discovery." It wasn't exactly clear to me how I became a structural engineer -- only that I did. I'm not sure that I really ever sat down at the buffet table of careers and made a deliberate choice. I just kept walking along and ended up where I ended up. I believe that is how most people choose a career -- some combination of family ties, autopilot, and some spark of an interest along the way. It's not a bad system (it has gotten society to this point, thus far) -- but it certainly isn't a good one.

Personally, I needed a change away from design engineering. It's not that I dislike the field -- I actually came to enjoy it when practicing it way more than I did in school, especially when flying in formation with more experienced engineers -- but I was getting to a point where I felt stuck. The economics of engineering consulting didn't help much. I still practice, just not as a full time job. Only for allies, when and if I can.

Instead, I created a project that collects the "day in the life" videos of local professionals (engineers, architects, manufacturers, and contractors) and then funnel those into local education programs (called "Expertise Project.") The idea is that by exposing students to a buffet table of local professionals (many of whom they would never meet, despite living within an hour from them) on a dedicated video platform...we can make more students aware of their career options and let them, in an informed way, choose a career path or their first employer with a bit more confidence than our current system is. That project led me to become a faculty member in a Civil Tech program at a community college, and dive into the belly of the beast of technical education, video production, and website design. Exhale.

What I've found is that, viewed from a step back and in context to other local career paths, that the best parts about engineering design (the problem discovery, solving, and communicating) are really quite attractive... even though the economics of the field are "eh, not bad." Honestly, the economics are the part that spooks me the most (and I'm always searching Eng-Tips for rays of light) -- and the part that I think our field has to worry about the most.

I'm just offering my experience thus far, because I found that I was becoming depleted on an engineering design only tract -- and needed to leaven it with an education / student career discovery tract to find more fulfillment. I think all students should at least get glimpses into local professions so they are somewhat aware, and then engineering students should taught how to communicate, above all. (My two cents).

This current career path is a high wire act and wouldn't be appealing to most - but it has turned out to be "funner" for me, at least right now.

"We shape our buildings, thereafter they shape us." -WSC

 

[IRstuff]

@MJB315

Gilbert mentions this in spiritual/philosophical context, you are where God drew a circle for you to be in; so at the end of the day, if you are fulfilled and happy, then you are precisely where you were meant to be, and the path that got you there, however tortuous, was the path you were meant to be on.

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[KootK]

I thought of MIStuctE_IRE and this thread recently when I was walking my dog and listening to a podcast by my favorite podcaster Russ Roberts: Link

In the middle third of that, they have an interesting discussion about career choices and happiness. And, as economists are prone to doing, they remain very pragmatic about it. The suggestion is that a good way to live might be to alternate periods of exploration (dreaming & scheming) and exploitation (working what you've chosen to your benefit). We all do this over the long haul by going to college and then not making any big changes in our final earning years. But, within reason, one might benefit from instituting modulated cycles of the same concept every 10 years or whatever. It was a interesting discussion.

Rationally, if you choose a path and then never veer from it without pausing to re-evaluate and re-strategize, what are the odds that you're still on the right path thirty years later? Additionally, I think that there's merit in questioning whether or not your can execute a truly fruitful re-assessment while still mired in the workaday hustle of you last strategic career choice. It's hard to really see what's on the outside when you're still very much on the inside.

 

[bones206]

So instead of being married to my job, I should have more of an... open relationship?

 

[IRstuff]

Elizabeth Gilbert's analogy is to be a hummingbird, flitting from flower to flower ;-)

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[KootK]

So instead of being married to my job, I should have more of an... open relationship?

Yeah. The concept of intermittent sabbaticals becomes very appealing (other than financially). I've been giving some serious thought to maybe driving a bus for a year or so. Kind of like Einstein's time in the Bern patent office. I'll just drive around, think about Eng-Tips threads and whatever else comes to mind, and worry about nothing when I get home. Just see where I land once I step outside of the pressure cooker for a while. A city bus driver here probably gets paid 2/3 of what I do or more.

 

[phamENG]

I've been giving some serious thought to maybe driving a bus for a year or so.

Ha. This summer when our school district (like so many others around the US) was scrambling for school bus drivers, I was keeping an eye on the incentives they were throwing out.

 

[Enable]

I find this bus driver business incredibly interesting because I’ve had a similar thought but for serving at a restaurant. Nothing too high class though. More like a Jack Astor’s situation. I think it would be fun to observe and interact with people (I’m generally not a people person so it would probably be good for me anyways).

On a related note, I woke up a few years ago realizing that I don’t have to live surrounded by concrete pavement. Not sure why that thought didn’t occur to me previously. I’m a tad slow, I guess. Been taking certain steps to change venues / actually enjoy life ever since. Moved to Northern Ontario (my city has North in the name lol), got myself a teaching gig and enrolled in a master’s program (statistics). I’ll hang around here for a bit but think ultimately, I’m heading out East to Halifax. Bring my sailboat, and study at one of the 5 universities and continue teaching. Where I wake up and a good day is actually a good day and not just a day where things don’t get too messed up.

Fuck just typing that out sounds good. Who wants to move with me? I could use some company!

 

[Brad805]

Years ago we worked with an architect that would take breaks every few years and run CAT. School Bus...Serenity NOW.

 

[KootK]

Would it not put my marriage in jeopardy, I might approach Lomarandil about joining his ministerial, developing world engineering thing for a spell. It looks pretty cool and I'm pretty sure that I could fake enough religiosity to get me through a rainy season or two. Who knows, maybe I could be converted? I would love to adopt a more optimistic belief system if I could. And I've not the slightest concern for what is "true" or "real". I just want to enjoy my remaining time as much as possible.

 

[KootK]

I’ve had a similar thought but for serving at a restaurant.

That's uncanny. I've actually applied to be a part time server at some high end steak houses. I got nowhere and spoke to some restraint industry friends about it. Apparently a "tourist" resume full of engineering accomplishments tends to just piss off restaurant people. I've been told that I'd be better off coming in with a blank resume and saying that I'd been in prison since 1998.

Who wants to move with me? I could use some company!

1) I'm NS licensed as of last month.
2) I've got a top three bestie out there.
3) I went on Halifax's Ghost Tour once and decided then and there that it's probably Canada's coolest city.

 

[phamENG]

I'll pass on the frozen north (I'm a Florida native and my blood will only get but so thick), but sail on down to the Chesapeake and give me a call. I live about 10 minutes from the Intracoastal canals. Have a dingy sailboat I'm fixing up in the backyard right now. Had a chance for a decent 26 footer a few months ago but the wife said no...

 

[AaronMcD]

I work flexible hours, remote from anywhere in the country we feel like, which is nice. I got into this because I'm good at logic, problem solving, math, and visualization, and I like getting real things done.

But I really hate sitting at a computer all day and have some horrible ADD. I don't have one life passion - I get into hobbies for a few years, obsess for a few years, burn out. Can't make money racing bikes, lifting weights, or backpacking. I had fun building out my campervan, so maybe do more of that in a few years. Probably still take side projects engineering.

Eventually when we've had enough of traveling, we will buy some land and build a house (or maybe buy a pre-build fixer upper with good bones), set up a workshop and AirBNB, learn woodworking or maybe build out a few more campervans to rent or sell. I always like teaching. Spent a year or so tutoring and several years coaching kids gymnastics. That was fun. And engaging. No way to zone out or scroll forums while teaching.

 

[MJB315]

The suggestion is that a good way to live might be to alternate periods of exploration (dreaming & scheming) and exploitation (working what you've chosen to your benefit).

I think there's a lot of wisdom in this "noodle on it and then run" cadence.

One person summed it up along the lines of "Happiness is wagging a successful campaign." It's not waging a war (which is easy to get into -- especially on the internet) and it's not waging a battle (which is something we all do well enough, whether beit passing a test or finishing up a submission to a client). It's figuring out a way to string together a series of battles in a way that helps you inch forward toward winning...whatever war you think that you're in.

Smushing that analogy into the context of career paths -- I think waging a series of "three year campaigns" in your war-of-career makes sense. Something like:

Campaign #1 - College. Win a series of battles and end up with a credential (and if you're lucky, something useful you actually remember). Stop. Exhale. Reset.
Campaign #2 - First Job. Win a series...actually, lose lots and lots of battles and realize you really don't have much expertise. Claw your way toward a base level of competency and justify your existence in the company. Brutal. Exhale. Reset.
Campaign #3 - Get a few real projects under your belt -- top to bottom. Show you got it. Start to breathe and look around....Realize that financially, there's something not quite clicking.

Those first three campaigns usually will take about 10 years (which, ahem, is probably 1/5th of your working life). Welp, time to gear up and do the next campaign.

Whereever that leads, it leads. It doesn't really seem to matter much... but I've just personally noticed that when I am in the middle of a campaign (whatever that is) and if I feel like I'm moving forward, I'm happy and fulfilled. Whenever I'm between campaigns and/or feel stuck, I feel anxious.

I'm not sure quite the point I'm driving towards here -- just riffing on alot of others have been sharing. It makes sense to me to take a few moments between campaigns, chill out, work at a restaurant/dig holes/paint the garage/whatever -- and then suit back up for whatever the next campaign is and see where it leads.

I just know that many of most successful people I know have quilted together a weird array of skills that makes them valuable -- and I'm starting to suspect they did it in this way.

"We shape our buildings, thereafter they shape us." -WSC

 

[Lomarandil]

Would it not put my marriage in jeopardy, I might approach Lomarandil about joining his ministerial, developing world engineering thing for a spell. It looks pretty cool and I'm pretty sure that I could fake enough religiosity to get me through a rainy season or two. Who knows, maybe I could be converted? I would love to adopt a more optimistic belief system if I could. And I've not the slightest concern for what is "true" or "real". I just want to enjoy my remaining time as much as possible.

It's definitely very cool/fun and super fulfilling. I've worked on everything from schools for kids whose parents make a living picking through trash, to vocational training facilities for rescued victims of human trafficking, to an airstrip that cuts travel time to the nearest hospital from most of a week to a few hours. (And yes -- we tend to have a pretty positive outlook on life that goes past Solomon's conclusion of "eat, drink, and find satisfaction in your work".)

I wouldn't say it's low stress. Not as a full-time gig. In the training before we come over, they like to point out that on a clinical scale, the stressors of the first 1-2 years of moving to another culture and language puts most people just short of the "lock them up in a straightjacket" threshold -- working with some sort of mental health professional is pretty much mandatory. After you get the language and routines figured out, that cuts down... Nowadays, I can get around town and handle anything short of a hospital or government office without much difficulty. So I've been able* to enjoy the slower pace and lifestyle/culture in Southeast Asia -- but it takes some investment.

*Of course, for problem-solving types like me (us), there's then the balance of wanting to help and fix everything. As Pixy pointed out in his recent threads, the Etabs jockeys are everywhere and making a real mess of things. Or even outside work, the economic disparities will get to you... My wife and I rent a nice concrete house in the big city, I've seen more Lambos and Range Rovers here than anywhere else in my life, but as I walk around the neighborhood, I chat everyday with a bunch of kids living under leaky tin roofs whose families are surviving on dollars per day. The needs are enormous.

The good news -- there are lots of ways to contribute meaningfully to those needs without threatening your marriage and moving halfway around the world. We constantly are looking for volunteers to help coach younger engineers remotely, or take a two week trip out to visit a project site and keep the architects from doing anything totally crazy. (

https://emiworld.org/trips).

KootK, we even have a team based in your fair city who would love to get input from time to time for their projects in Haiti or Africa.

----
just call me Lo.

 

[skeletron]

I took a sabbatical/hiatus/time-away from engineering. 3 years and a bit from the day I slipped out the door to when I slipped back into an office. Learned a lot in those 3 years. Very much cleared my head and developed a better understanding of "me" as opposed to a version of me under stress. Definitely got sick of a few jobs (tutor, gopher on a film set, warehouse muscle, administrator) and understood what engineering can actually do for me.

I don't know why this isn't encouraged or even acknowledged as a realistic option for many. Definitely a tough move to do in your early-30s, but not impossible. If you have any sort of independence in your later life, do it.

 

[MJB315]

I'll throw this out there -- just in case the mood should strike.

If anyone on this thread is up for a self-recording a "day in the life" style video of yourself, showing what you actually do as a practicing engineer -- I'd love to show it on ExPr Online (Expertise Project Online). Trailer here:

https://www.expertiseproject.org/

My engineer videos are all currently locally based (Upstate New York) but I'd welcome honest videos from anywhere and put them along side. Videos can be as simple as talking heads (example here) or on location (example here). They're not intended to be advertisements, but more honest glimpses in to what programs look like (example here) and what make people anxious and hopeful about their current jobs (example here).

No pressure of course, but if it's something you want to collaborate on and use as an outlet -- I'm all ears.

"We shape our buildings, thereafter they shape us." -WSC