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Technician Cources 2
- Thread starter MATTD
- Start date
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1
- #2
DaveVikingPE
Structural
No offense, but I must register my objections.
1. If you have a drafting department/office/etc. there's a clear need for CAD techs, maybe.
2. If you want the CAD techs to do detailing or other work perhaps the "experienced" engineers "shouldn't be doing" then you should hire younger, inexperienced _engineers_ to do it. There are two-year college programs in Civil Technology (these are not survey technolgists, who I consider invaluable) that produce technicians with Associate's Degrees who apparently are trained in the "practical" (i.e., no calculus-based courses required) aspects of construction and the engineering behind it. From my experience, these folks pretty much position themselves to be construction managers.
3. I strongly believe that "detailers" as a profession are obsolete: this is the job of an engineer. I also believe that draftsmen may be obsolete, though I will acknowledge that skilled drafting itself is vital to the engineering profession.
4. The best source of draftsmen/detailers and such should come from junior and senior-level engineering students or new graduates. An engineer with poorly-developed drafting skills or lacking a solid appreciation (or worse, disdain) for drafting (computer-aided or by-hand) is a blight on the entire field of engineering. At the present time, an engineer with good CAD abilities on a wide variety of platforms/software seems to be preferrable to one with "managment" experience. Which is harder to learn? Is is more productive to have an "engineer" whose contribution in a bind will be to spend a week finding a suitable draftman or one who spends a couple of days doing the drawings himself?
5. I would extend the above to computer work in general. An engineer should be excellent with computers because he (or she) is an engineer and as such we're supposed to be good at these things.
6. Back on subject, sort of... I hate the "tech" courses. They produce smug "technicians" who scoff at engineers because, after all, who needs to understand a proof of torsion? Why's all that math necessary? "It's good enough without an engineered design..." I believe that a fundamental disease currently (and for a long time now) ciculating within the engineering profession is that if you're doing work, you're unsuccessful; work smarter, not harder: that is, don't work at all, pass it off to someone lesser than yourself...
At any rate, check out what your local community college has to offer.
1. If you have a drafting department/office/etc. there's a clear need for CAD techs, maybe.
2. If you want the CAD techs to do detailing or other work perhaps the "experienced" engineers "shouldn't be doing" then you should hire younger, inexperienced _engineers_ to do it. There are two-year college programs in Civil Technology (these are not survey technolgists, who I consider invaluable) that produce technicians with Associate's Degrees who apparently are trained in the "practical" (i.e., no calculus-based courses required) aspects of construction and the engineering behind it. From my experience, these folks pretty much position themselves to be construction managers.
3. I strongly believe that "detailers" as a profession are obsolete: this is the job of an engineer. I also believe that draftsmen may be obsolete, though I will acknowledge that skilled drafting itself is vital to the engineering profession.
4. The best source of draftsmen/detailers and such should come from junior and senior-level engineering students or new graduates. An engineer with poorly-developed drafting skills or lacking a solid appreciation (or worse, disdain) for drafting (computer-aided or by-hand) is a blight on the entire field of engineering. At the present time, an engineer with good CAD abilities on a wide variety of platforms/software seems to be preferrable to one with "managment" experience. Which is harder to learn? Is is more productive to have an "engineer" whose contribution in a bind will be to spend a week finding a suitable draftman or one who spends a couple of days doing the drawings himself?
5. I would extend the above to computer work in general. An engineer should be excellent with computers because he (or she) is an engineer and as such we're supposed to be good at these things.
6. Back on subject, sort of... I hate the "tech" courses. They produce smug "technicians" who scoff at engineers because, after all, who needs to understand a proof of torsion? Why's all that math necessary? "It's good enough without an engineered design..." I believe that a fundamental disease currently (and for a long time now) ciculating within the engineering profession is that if you're doing work, you're unsuccessful; work smarter, not harder: that is, don't work at all, pass it off to someone lesser than yourself...
At any rate, check out what your local community college has to offer.
- Thread starter
- #3
Dave
My cad manager and his team of techs are a bit miffed that you think detailers are obsolete! Unfortunately in todays world there is a short supply young engineers who want to develop their cad skills. We feel technicians are a very important part of the engineering team and their training and education are crucial to the the success of a company. There are now very few colleges which run ONC courses in Engineering and all I wanted to know was if anyone knew of any courses which would help our technicians with their development.
My cad manager and his team of techs are a bit miffed that you think detailers are obsolete! Unfortunately in todays world there is a short supply young engineers who want to develop their cad skills. We feel technicians are a very important part of the engineering team and their training and education are crucial to the the success of a company. There are now very few colleges which run ONC courses in Engineering and all I wanted to know was if anyone knew of any courses which would help our technicians with their development.
DaveVikingPE
Structural
I'm assuming "a bit miffed" =/= "offended," as I meant no offense, though I was serious in my post. I have tremendous respect for the drafters of old, men of steel who wielded graphite much like the Musketeers and their swords, as it were...
I'm really surprised that there's a shortage of young engineers who want to develop their CAD skills vs. an apparent wealth of CAD operators who want/need to develop their practical engineering/detailing knowledge. Hey, my hat's off to your CAD manager who wants to train detailers, it's just that what is the need for engineers if all the "cool" stuff is "relegated" to the techs? I would think that the engineering schools would be foaming at the mouth to place their students quickly as detailers and such.
I do know, however, that the community colleges (US of A) offer a lot of technician-level courses. I also know that there are short courses offered by AWS and AISC in detailing, at least I'm pretty sure they're offered. There are good books on the subject, too, and what's to stop a motivated CAD "operator" from cracking a book and putting in the extra hours he might need? There are also the vo-tech trade schools; I would think a CAD tech who's also a certified welder, for example, would be a major asset, provided he was kept away from the "managment" track as long as possible.
Personally, I love drawing up connection details. For me, it's the most intricate and thus fun part of the design. What's the deal with the younger engineers who don't want to do detailing?
I'm really surprised that there's a shortage of young engineers who want to develop their CAD skills vs. an apparent wealth of CAD operators who want/need to develop their practical engineering/detailing knowledge. Hey, my hat's off to your CAD manager who wants to train detailers, it's just that what is the need for engineers if all the "cool" stuff is "relegated" to the techs? I would think that the engineering schools would be foaming at the mouth to place their students quickly as detailers and such.
I do know, however, that the community colleges (US of A) offer a lot of technician-level courses. I also know that there are short courses offered by AWS and AISC in detailing, at least I'm pretty sure they're offered. There are good books on the subject, too, and what's to stop a motivated CAD "operator" from cracking a book and putting in the extra hours he might need? There are also the vo-tech trade schools; I would think a CAD tech who's also a certified welder, for example, would be a major asset, provided he was kept away from the "managment" track as long as possible.
Personally, I love drawing up connection details. For me, it's the most intricate and thus fun part of the design. What's the deal with the younger engineers who don't want to do detailing?
The following site will be beneficial to your technicians.
A young engineer will ofcourse be necessary for guidance.
A young engineer will ofcourse be necessary for guidance.
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You don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/ on this server."
That what I got at Something wrong?
You don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/ on this server."
That what I got at Something wrong?
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- #7
I would have to say that the idea of detailers being obsolete is way off. My official title is "structural engineering technician" which would imply I'm "just a tech"
Well, that's not true. The engineers I work leave a lot of responsibility to me to come up with the detail, and then they just fill in the numbers (plate size, weld size, etc.)
Most times I just get a quick sketch of what he wants the detail to be like, and then I make it work in the drawings. Other times, I just go through my set of plans and figure out what details I need, and do them myself. I have even done small designs using RAM.
Although maybe it is different in my case because I went to school for architectural engineering and not just a "tech school", so I have had all the math, concrete, steel, etc. classes, but I still only have an associates degree.
Well, that's not true. The engineers I work leave a lot of responsibility to me to come up with the detail, and then they just fill in the numbers (plate size, weld size, etc.)
Most times I just get a quick sketch of what he wants the detail to be like, and then I make it work in the drawings. Other times, I just go through my set of plans and figure out what details I need, and do them myself. I have even done small designs using RAM.
Although maybe it is different in my case because I went to school for architectural engineering and not just a "tech school", so I have had all the math, concrete, steel, etc. classes, but I still only have an associates degree.
and look for free software.
They will give u a passowrd.
They will give u a passowrd.
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