Sorry Swuser, I too have used many cad and cad cam packages over the last few years and many of the "innovative" features of recent Solidworks releases have been around for some time. My only gripe is the speed at which they have been putting out new versions (not service packs) lately. I have defended them in the past on this but 05 already, thats a bit much. I am sure 06 beta is just around the corner, before you know it they will release 2021 in 2008. Anywho, that ought to take some heat off ya and put in my direction, I know the guys get all wired up when ever someone has a negative thing to say bout SW. Any way sorry if we have offended ya in any way, its all in good fun.