Good day, have been doing research on sustainable synthetic materials used for rubber and besides goodyear's Bio isoprene and yokohama's orange oil use have not found anything more or less interesting. I just blame my searching skills for this, I can not believe that there are close to none alternatives to using petrochemicals as humanity is starting to concern more and more on ecological problems. Just wanted to ask maybe you know something about sustainable materials used for creating rubber?
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Sustainable tire materials 2
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patprimmer
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I thought natural rubber was bio-sustainable?
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Pat
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Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
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CapriRacer
Mechanical
"It is sustainable, but not only it is not enough for whole rubber market it also lacks some properties which rubber made from petrochemicals can offer"
Uh .... not exactly. Ya see, the amount of trees planted is dependent on the law of supply and demand. If the demand for natural rubber were to go up, then more tress would be planted. In fact, that is what has happened due to China entering into the tire market in a big way.
The second part about properties is not exactly true either. If you remember that the reason why synthetical rubber was invented was that WW2 cut off supply of natural rubber to the Allies - and that opened a whole new avenue to research - I hope it would be obvious that research into using natural rubber would eventually yield results. It's just that oil is stupidly inexpensive. It just doesn't make sense to pursue "sustainable" sources when the competitive pressures are all about price.
But don't get me wrong. I'm all for sustainable. But as an observer this is how I see it.
Uh .... not exactly. Ya see, the amount of trees planted is dependent on the law of supply and demand. If the demand for natural rubber were to go up, then more tress would be planted. In fact, that is what has happened due to China entering into the tire market in a big way.
The second part about properties is not exactly true either. If you remember that the reason why synthetical rubber was invented was that WW2 cut off supply of natural rubber to the Allies - and that opened a whole new avenue to research - I hope it would be obvious that research into using natural rubber would eventually yield results. It's just that oil is stupidly inexpensive. It just doesn't make sense to pursue "sustainable" sources when the competitive pressures are all about price.
But don't get me wrong. I'm all for sustainable. But as an observer this is how I see it.
CapriRacer
Mechanical
Darn! No edit function?
Then one additional thought: Carbon black is a petrochemical and I'll bet that would yield some interesting avenues of research. Don't forget that there are other materials that can be used as fillers in place of carbon black - silica, clay are 2 that comes to mind.
Then one additional thought: Carbon black is a petrochemical and I'll bet that would yield some interesting avenues of research. Don't forget that there are other materials that can be used as fillers in place of carbon black - silica, clay are 2 that comes to mind.
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patprimmer
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Just because natural rubber won't replace synthetics in ALL applications, it does not mean it is not a suitable replacement for many.
CapriRacer is spot on. Economics plays a major role. Also he has alluded to rubber polymer is but one constituent in a rubber compound.
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Pat
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CapriRacer is spot on. Economics plays a major role. Also he has alluded to rubber polymer is but one constituent in a rubber compound.
Regards
Pat
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I have some 50 year old tires and hoses that are crack free. Modern tires seem to develop cracks in the tread and sidewalls, sometimes after just 3 or 4 years. The engine breather rubber(?) hose on a snow blower I bought new 10 or so years ago cracked and broke within about 2 years. 2 years ago a friend bought new economy ball joints ball joints for his Dodge truck from one of the big chain stores. After a year the rubber boots cracked and split. Volvo enthusiasts report the wiring insulation used by Volvo in the 1980s has failed band degraded completely throughout the engine compartment. The 1988 models allegedly use a more durable recipe. Similarly the bio-glue Volvo used to hold hub cap emblems on resulted in hubcaps without emblems after just a few years.
If sustainability brings an even shorter service life it will be very sad.
If sustainability brings an even shorter service life it will be very sad.
GregLocock
Automotive
Well there's a whole bunch of different reasons for that lot. I'm a bit astonished by your modern tires cracking in 4 years, perhaps you should buy named brands! I've just scrapped a set of 13 year old Michelin Pilots that were worn to their legal limit (ahem) in the Australian weather and they looked fine apart from that whole tread depth thing.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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Cheers
Greg Locock
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patprimmer
New member
I have some 20 year lod cheap tyres that are on a trailer so only low mileage, that are now just showing the first sign of sidewall cracks. Another set actually 2 years older on another trailer (different cheap brand) show no cracks. I think both where made in Taiwan which was the cheap source then.
Regards
Pat
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Regards
Pat
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CapriRacer
Mechanical
Just an FYI:
There are many types of rubbers and not all of them are suitable for use in tires. This is especially true of the rubbers that are used in the underhood area.
Unfortunately, that means that tires are going to develop cracks. In some repsects that is a good thing, because cracks give an indication of the state of the properties of the rubber. However, cracks are the result of both the properties of the rubber and the amount of strain the rubber has been subjected to. Little strain = little cracking.
In order to slow down the appearance of these cracks, tires have antioxidants as put of the rubber mix. But these get used up - and sometimes fairly quickly.
So don't be surprised to see quite a wide range when it comes to cracking in tires.
There are many types of rubbers and not all of them are suitable for use in tires. This is especially true of the rubbers that are used in the underhood area.
Unfortunately, that means that tires are going to develop cracks. In some repsects that is a good thing, because cracks give an indication of the state of the properties of the rubber. However, cracks are the result of both the properties of the rubber and the amount of strain the rubber has been subjected to. Little strain = little cracking.
In order to slow down the appearance of these cracks, tires have antioxidants as put of the rubber mix. But these get used up - and sometimes fairly quickly.
So don't be surprised to see quite a wide range when it comes to cracking in tires.
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