submittal calcs stamped by a PE vs. SE 4

[cmbyrd77]

I have a situation where we have trusses being fabricated in a different state (that doesn't recognize the difference between a SE and a PE) so when I received the calcs they are sealed by a PE in the state where they are fabricated. Where the project is located I am the SE of record. I am trying to figure out if it is suffice to accept the calcs from a PE in another state since the trusses are manufactured in that state. Any thoughts and/or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[nutte]

Usually the contract documents (drawings or specifications) state that the specialty engineer shall be licensed in the state the project is located in, not necessarily the state the steel is being fabricated in. What do they say for your project?

 

[GeoPaveTraffic]

I have to believe that the design should be sealed (by the appropriate engineer) in the state in which the project is located. Otherwise the out of state engineer is practicing in a state where he is not licensed.

Mike Lambert

 

[msquared48]

Check with your local jurisdiction to see if they will accept a Civil stamp (PE) in lieu of a Structural stamp (SE). In some states recognizing the structural discipline as a separate licensing, they will allow a Civil to stamp drawings up to a certain point. Call them to see what that point is, if any.

That being said, the engineer who stamped the truss design documents must be licensed in the state of the project. Otherwise, someone licewnsed in that state will have to assume the responsibility, but that gets into a real sticky area - the old "direct siupervision" clause.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[MrHershey]

Generally speaking, has to be a PE/SE in the state the project is in. We've had it waived for military work where they'll accept from anybody licensed anywhere in the United States. But anything else is normally for state the project is in unless you can convince the building department otherwise.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

What if the original engineer has no clue where the trusses are going?? I think that happens more than most will admit!!

 

[connectegr]

We provide sub-contract engineering for projects all over the country. When a PE/SE seal is required nearly every specification requires seal for the state in which the project is located. However, depending on where you are located this can be more difficult. For example CA and IL require the SE3 or SE2 test for the SE license. Some states don't offer these tests, therefore reciprocity can be more difficult when trying to obtain these states and others. If these requirements are a hurdle for the fabricator, it is best addressed up front.

As the structural EOR, the design of the trusses will ultimately fall within your "responsibility". If submittal of the calculations to other officials is required, then they probably have requirements.

http://www.FerrellEngineering.com

Providing fabrication and erection efficient structural design of connections. Consulting services for structural welding and bolting.

 

[TXStructural]

In every case I have seen, a pre-engineered component (i.e. truss) used in a project must be sealed by an engineer licensed in the state where the component will be used, not where it is fabricated.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

While I agree with TX - I have had my hand slapped once or twice for "crossing" state lines - like the laws of Physics and Engineerng change when you cross that magical river that separates two states.....??

 

[ishvaaag]

Someone needs to re-"State" some calcs.

 

[msquared48]

I think I'm contageous.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[JStephen]

Invariably, the state where the item would be installed would be the state from which the PE seal should come. Some states make this very clear in their rules, some states don't, and should probably change their rules to make it more clear.

"What if you don't know what state?" Valid question. I would say the solution is to find out what state/city/county, etc, particularly if professional engineering is involved as part of the production of the product. The laws of physics don't change across state lines, but the laws governing engineering do.

That reminds me of the recent case of the truck driver hauling a truck load of ammunition that wandered into Mexico by mistake. He didn't know what country he was in, but man, he sure should have found out first.

 

[zcp]

With you being the EOR, doesn't it come down to what you are comfortable with and what is going to make the project safe? Maybe pick up the phone and call the truss PE and see if they know what they are doing. Express your reservation. They may have the stamp in your state as well. Bottom line, are the trusses safe or not?

So much paperwork and so little engineering these days.

ZCP

http://www.phoenix-engineer.com

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I would vote for a "National" Engineering license that beleives in the rules of Physics and Engineering and covers ALL states. Any takers out there??

 

[msquared48]

Actually Not Mike - some regions such as California, Nevada, Florida, and Alaska are just too specialized from what I have seen.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[hawkaz]

I agree with msquared. First off, I am a believer of States rights vs. consolidated power/regulation.
In addition, it is too easy to get in trouble when you don't understand local conditions. I work for a large firm with multiple state registrations- we go through extensive continuing education to keep up with Florida wind provisions, California seismic, Texas expansive soils, Midwest frost depth issues, Alaska permafrost... It would be scary if people just had a national license, and didn't have the additional knowledge/resources to go with it. I'm not saying that anyone would be malicious- but ignorance is just as dangerous.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I disagree.... We don't design what we don't know(supposedly). I know nothng about Perma-Frost -- so thats out the window. I also don't do Nuclear!! But I do practice in Missouri where we have about the second worst seismic loads around. So could I do CA - I think so!! Just jump it up a notch or so.

ALSO - Most states and a couple of hundred bucks and you ARE licensed!!! So why not just do it nationally??? I am registeredd in 42 or 43 states ALL by reciprocity or comity..... Just dollars and maybe an ethics test!!!

So let me pay the $5,000 or $6,000 a year - the states divide it and my paperwork goes to about zero!!

 

[nutte]

$5,000 per year... Do you think the engineer who's only licensed in two or three states is going to go for this?

 

[JAE]

You'd have to revise the national constitution - states have their rights to regulate commerce within their own borders.