Structural failure

[sham222]

Hi Everyone,

Im not sure if i am posting this question on the correct forum but i hope someone can help shed some light on this for me. Im currently working for a structural eng company as a structural technologist. I would just like to know, in the case of something going wrong-a structural failure of some sort, how much responsibility do i carry? Im currenly just registered as a engineer in training with ecsa.

Thanks

 

[ishvaaag]

I can't answer in the USA; I am from Spain. It is mostly a matter of the judge deciding the issue. Normally and for reason of expediency they try to find the responsible between those undersigning the works but since many times they do not find who is they adjudicate the repairs to a number of parties either in solidarity (then one responsible must pay all if the other's do not take their part) or in community (each has to pay some intransmissible part).

Liability can get to not signing parties on reason of their contractual and professional need of care of duty in the exercise of their profession; it is rare (but not unseen) be included in the reclamation if you are not signing the works; but an unsatisfied boss or some disgusted client may perfore such first hand inmunity; and the nature of the professional duties is such that sometimes even agreed clauses of inmmunity are void under the law. So it is better be insured as an exercising professional to cover any issues that appear, and for your case there must be some common stances (or even standing judgemental positions) that establish how the things are seen there.

I do not know if your position is one not or scarcely rewarded -as being in practices as sometimes happen for some professions- prior to entitlement to exercise the profession, but if there is experience that liability reaches to some like those, it would be of justice at least adding insurance for any in the instance.

 

[JAE]

sham222, it depends upon where you are located in the world. In the US, EIT's generally aren't liable for anything unless some malicious activity is proved (you purposely changed a detail and it caused a problem and they can prove you actually changed it on purpose with mailicious intent...not likely).

Interns typically work under engineers who are licensed and who take responsibility for their designs.

 

[petertor]

Get in the habit of maintaining a daily diary. Really. The day-to-day project communications on tasking and design criteria should all come to you as e-mails, not voice or redline markups. You should download their e-mails every Thursday to PDFs, because you'll be locked out of Outlook the day you're laid off. If superiors give you only verbal directions, transcribe voice instructions to your e-diary, and buy a cheap Pentax scanner to scan all their redlines, then backup those files every day to your thumb drive.

Best is a thumb drive for every project, then after seven years' liability, you can have a little microwave popcorn party and erase that thumb drive for your next project.

Theoretically the department manager is solely responsible for design liability, but s/he's probably "divorced" from their spouse, with the house in their kids' name, and any savings in a off-shore account in Netherland Antilles. And the firm's principals, who knows their E&O-dodge story?

Most Boards now make all discipline engineers who "touched" the work also stamp the drawings, none of them are covered by the company's E&O liability policies as "also named", so they're 'jointly and separably liable" and really E&O just pays for the attorney's fees anyway, after it's all said and done, they even go after your spouse in joint property states now to collect.

I've seen a simple typo error on a junior office engineer's structural design computer input cascade through the entire company, the local building official who also approved the plans, the architect, school district, even contractors and their subs, then when the data error was found, subsequent forensics and as-built reviews uncovered dozens more code errors, disgorging all the project communications revealed hundreds of more compromising cross-liabilities, just the simple error of + instead of - in data input caused some involved companies to cease to exist and careers wrecked, long before the 3 years of court litigation to settle up.

I've seen a simple thumbs up instead of thumbs down crane command error by a junior field engineer cascade throughout the entire contracting company, the subcontractors on up to the engineering designer, even the suppliers, just the simple error of thumbs up instead of thumbs down caused involved companies to cease to exist and supervisory design personnel careers wrecked, even though they had no control over field operations as explicitly written in the specs!

That's where having an e-diary, voice transcripts and scans of redlines and non-digital communications is priceless, although, if you've made the initiating error, however small and even doing what you're told by superiors, you'll never work in engineering again, and if your company goes E&O bankrupt, you're out of work anyway, with a bad rep.

That's why so many design engineers are on meds. % )

Get a thumb drive. Write everything down and archive it.

 

[JedClampett]

Wow, this makes me go want to kill myself. What's the waiting period for a pistol?
Seriously, in 33 years I've never been involved in any legal issues that have put me at risk of losing my license or one red cent. Maybe it's just dumb luck.

 

[ishvaaag]

It is called destiny. And maybe being in the staff of some professional body insurance makes see this and more. Simply, everyone sees what it is for him/her. This said, lessons are out there and repeated. 3 meters from me I have a facsimile edition of some architect of the sixteen hundreds and you can read in him the same aches lots of architects of today can make and in fact do. Whatever you may have lived, little one has to have seen to see the big imperfections that surround us. It comes to my mind the thoughts os Siragusa, a famous UFO contactee of the fifties or sixties in Italy, that waiting the bus for his work at the post office, saw one and was baffled to find himself in wonder enough to not be wanting to go in the end to work and realizing "how ugly was everything in sight". And that was just aesthetics! If he could pierce social organization he could have got even worse opinion.

 

[Lion06]

Just out of curiosity, what is a structural technologist?

 

[ishvaaag]

StructuralEIT,

the traditonal careers are in Europe are being dismantled in favour of "more specialized ones" that do "who knows what" apart from responding to the intent of the political-economic bodies (at some places somewhat equated to the military-industrial establishments; where not, to the powers that be, not always far).

In Zaragoza we have some purportedly educative institution which most practical effect is to reduce costs for firms: if some kind of worker is in demand they inmediately make short courses -sometimes even payed for by government!- enabling just enough to get a glimpse of the true tasks at hand. And in our field, this means courses are being given just 2 weeks long teaching how to use some popular structural design software an let the guys in the field to earn their life. Now imagine the effect these things are having in the quality of the works and of course in the lives of professionals that sometimes have taken say 20 years of study to know what they know. So soon, what, soon, NOW, people IS in the hands (again) of people ill prepared to do what a proper society should be demanding.

AND, to not be just a whipping of sometimes just relabeled professions, it must be clear that to exercise some professions one soon go will have to go under one of such careers, for there won't be other alternative in the zone. Some of them will grow to be as seasoned professionals as the better of us can be, for there are always those that so perform.

 

[sham222]

its basically a structural designer that attended a university of technology