Structural Engineering Title vs. Practice Act

[H57]

I am located in the state of Nebraska. Nebraska has a Structural Engineering Title Act. This means: When a person passes the SE 1 Exam he is given the title "Professional Civil Engineer". At this time he can stamp all structural work in the state. If a person chooses to take the SE 2 Exam and passes. He is given the title "Structural Engineer."

A couple of days ago a lunch meeting the director of the Board of Engineers & Architects stated that a code official chooses to he can require a Structural Engineer to stamp specific work. That is he can reject work stamped by a PE if he thinks that it is necessary to have an SE do that work.

Has anyone experienced a similar situation where a state has a title act, but it can be enforced as a practice act by code officials? Or in some other way?

I will say that after the questions at the meeting the board is discussing this specific issue to clarify the uncertainty.

 

[whyun]

The title act restricts the USE of a particular title, for example Structural Engineer, to individuals who has not met the state's quialifications but not limit the practice. For example, a licensed civil engineer may practice structural engineering but not advertise himself as a Structural Engineer.

The practice act restricts unlicensed individuals from practicing a particular profession. For example, unlicensed individual can not practice civil engineering except under a direct responsible charge of a licensed civil engineer.

The state should have a list of design authority limiting the extent of practice for each profession. For example, civil engineer may design builings up to 150 ft.

An individual, say one building official or one plan checker, does not and should not determine whether a specific work shall be stamped by an SE and not CE. It should be determined based on the state's regulations. Regulations vary from state to state.

 

[H57]

I agree with what you stated, but according to the director, that does not make it so. Her understanding is the code official can make a determination if an SE is required for a specific project. The state allows a qualified PE to stamp all structural projects (qualification is based on experience and education). There is no restriction that would specifically require an SE on a given project.

 

[Lion06]

That seems a little absurb to me - to leave something so completely subjective to the opinion of a single person who likely doesn't have an engineering degree. How can he, being less qualified than you, determine that you are unqualified without a specific set of criteria to follow?

 

[MiketheEngineer]

California has a very strict set of rules of what a PE can design and when an SE is required.

Makes sense to me.

As always - our Code of Ethics says you should not take on a project that you are not qualified to do by virtue of experience or training.

In Missouri - I can call myself a Structural Engineer but I limit myself to 2 or 3 stories residential, light commercial or industrial - no hospitals, etc.

 

[PEinVA]

MiketheEngineer,
I understand you are limiting your work due to ability, etc. But people live in 2-3 story houses and work in light commercial and industrial. You make it sound like you have no confidence in your design. I hope that's not the case.



RC
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

 

[MiketheEngineer]

RCraine -

No - that is not the case. And yes people are NUMBER 1. I feel comfortable in those areas with about 30 years experience and have no desire nor time to get into larger designs - which often take months or years before completion and hundreds of changes. Apprently in my area - many engineers ONLY want the bigger projects - so these smaller ones take little time and pay WELL with very low liability. When was the last time you heard of a new three story house or two story retail shop falling down????

 

[Lion06]

Mike-
I agree with your assessment. It sounds like the engineer needs to know what they are qualified to design and/or a specific set of rules about what a PE can/can't stamp (similar to what California has) as opposed to leaving it up to the discretion of the building code official/plan reviewer with no clear guidance as noted in the OP.

 

[JStephen]

What specific set of rules about SE stamp does California have? I seem to remember from years ago that they generally expected an SE seal on a lot of stuff, but the state rules didn't actually require it on anything but hospitals.

 

[whyun]

Check out this page for the California regulations:

http://www.dca.ca.gov/pels/laws.htm

2008 Professional Engineers Act is lengthy and it is not easy to get to the precise information you need...

But check out the Building Design Authority for who can design what. In my opinion, it is yet too general and should be elaborated.

 

[msquared48]

H57:

If this is true, then why the "Structural Engineer" classification in Nebraska? It seems pointless.

Similar to what Miketheengineer stated for Missouri, in Washington a Civil can only design for two to three stories. That limitation creates a need for the structural designation. With no limitation, the structural classification is rendered pointless.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[sandman21]

In CA an SE is required for schools, hospitals, and in LA on building above 100ft, not sure of the exact number.

 

[BRGENG]

Missouri only has Professional Engineers, no Civil, Structural, Electrical etc. There are no height limitations in Missouri and technically a EE could design a high rise on the New Madrid fault if they were competent. Also technical you can not call yourself a Structural Engineer in Missouri since it is not official recognized by the state, you can only use PE if you are licensed. You may State that you are an SE in the State of______.

 

[rmurph17]

I don't know how it works in the United States but in the United Kingdom I'am both a

Chartered Structural Engineer by thr Institution of Structural Engineers and a

Chartered Civil Engineer with the Institute of Civil Engineers

i.e. BSc(Hons) MEng PhD CEng M.ICE M.IStructE

I'am also a member of the american society of civil engineers (affiliate)

What is the equivalent title in the states?

R. Murphy
MICE MIStructE MASCE

 

[H57]

After emails back and forth the crux of the question seems to be whether a person taking the SE 1 exam and being licensed as a PE is considered the same discipline as someone who takes the SE 1 & 2 exam and is licensed as an SE. Previously it has only been considered that the code official could require a specific discipline to stamp specific drawings. Structural is the only discipline with two different stamps being able to do the work. It has been lack of understanding of the state rules on various individuals parts.

The board has said they will review this issue at the next board meeting.

 

[prost]

H57
Let me start off by saying I am a PE (mechanical) in Missouri, so I have only some idea of what distinguishes a CE with a PE and a CE with an SE.

I agree with your assessment of the situation; such decisions cannot be left to the capricious decisions of any code official. If the SE requirement is in the code, then you have to do it. But if it isn't in the code, and the code has no provision for 'judgement' then I think the code official is off the mark.

I suggest contacting your elected representatives (state wide) about it; sounds like the code official is overstepping his/her boundaries of responsibility or authority.