Strucdes Finite Element Analysis Software

[barrywilsons]

thread507-205643

I have been using Strucdes 6.4 for about 15 years. The Strucdes company ceased trading about then but the software is still very useful, especially with the design of steel sheds. I am running it on Windows 7 via DosBox

There are some bugs in the software particularly with openings in a shed and wind loadings. However the Australian Wind Loading codes have considerably changed in the meantime and I now enter all the wind loads manually.

From time to time I come across other engineers comps that utilise the program so there must be lots of other people out there using it still.

I am interested in hearing about other peoples experience with the software.

 

[civeng80]

I have this software and have designed many buildings with it.
Its great software but unfortunately Dos based.
Rather than dosbox (which I was running for a while) its better to use it in a virtual computer with Windows XP and Dos.
I think its particularly good for designing portal framed buildings. I could never understand it completely e.g. crumble, but its still good.

 

[barrywilsons]

I have found that the tutorials helped a lot with Crumble.
However having said that it took me 2 years to really get used to it. I had problems running it under Windows XP. It worked for years then suddenly refused to work. I actually have windows 95 on a virtual computer but I have not tried Strucdes with it. Part of my problems with the virtual computer is shifting the files from the virtual computer to the real one.

 

[civeng80]

I had it on dosbox for a while but didn't really like it running on that. Also I could never get to print the BMDs or deflections diagrams and I tried many ideas but finally gave up.
Still have it on a virtual computer with xp and it is ok as far as I know. I also use microstran which I like.

As I said I still would use it for portal frames but thats about it really.

The guy who produced it was from Ballarat and I was surprised that it wasn't pursued to windows level, since it was a very popular program in the late 80's and early 90's. It was actually accepted by the SAA.

Anyway one question do you have any problems getting the computations through with this software ?

Also interested here to know more about this software.

 

[barrywilsons]

I have had no trouble getting computations approved with the software. I have submitted comps in all states & territiories of Australia with no problems. Although there have been changes to AS4100 over the years those changes do not effect the basic arithmetic of the code. Unfortunately the program has a bug that does not allow it to only print the critical load combinations. You have to sort that out manually and I go through the file and delete the non-critical ones that I have been forced to print where there are different combinations that that are critical for different elements.

However I clean the computations up by combining all the wordstar files using "Wordstar 4" then importing them into "Word Perfect" and reformat them using a macro that I wrote years ago. I notice that the wordstar people have now made old Wordstar4 a free download. I add the hframe printout as appendicies.

I use a screen capture program to capture the graphical printout when I want it and copy and paste it into "Paint" from there I can inverse the screen colour and paste it into a "Word Perfect"

That way I can get a consistent coherent set of documents.

 

[civeng80]

Very clever.
I edit the computations manually in ms word no need to use word perfect in my case. I also change the wind loads according to the new code. Amazingly it still produces dfx files in autocad.
For portal frame buildings its terrific. Ive designed quite a few and still do.
Have you got other structures software or is this the one you use all the time ?
Reason why Im asking is I was thinking of crumble and investing some time in the tutorials.
Do you think its worth it at this point ?

 

[barrywilsons]

I also use Multiframe. However I use it only when I am having trouble in Strucdes. I tend to use strucdes for everything. However I have found that when extending a shed out to the side it sometimes gives silly results. I also use multiframe for stuff that looks complicated, it has a better graphical user interface. Years ago I had a copy of another popular program that a staff member demanded. After parting with many thousands I discovered that it was no faster or more iterative than crumble and without the frame generator. When he left I gave him the other program to take with him.

I think that you will find the time invested in the crumble tutorials a good investment.

 

[civeng80]

I agree that it is such a flexible program and combined with ms word it is terrific. Also now that I remember it does have a bug in portal I think it has to do with deflections. I was getting very large sections due to the high deflection limitations. Again I fixed it up in ms word and Hframe analysis.
Im actually flipping thru the manual now and I see there is about 18 tutorials which I may pursue (at least some).

What program did you use to capture the screen shots in dos? I tried so many without success!

Im glad that you raised this post because I was nearly at the point of giving up on this software because of its age and computer limitations.
Also wondering do you still generate dxf files from the program or use it just fro your computations?

 

[rapt]

Civeng80

"It was actually accepted by the SAA."

This is not quite correct. At one stage SAA tried to get into the software sales business. They were selling Strucdes. This in no way meant that they performed any checks on its results and/or accepted it in terms of application of the Standard or "approved" it.

SAA has never and probably will never "approve" software.

 

[civeng80]

rapt

Fair enough.

 

[rapt]

civeng80,

No problem. That was always the arguement against Standards getting into the software marketing business. That it would imply that the Software was checked by Standards and basically approved as an implementation of the standard. We argued strongly against it at the time (we were asked to offer RAPT for sale through them but refused) on this basis.

Interestingly, from what I understand, the concrete building design option in Strucdes did not actually use the overall frame analysis to design the individual members. It based the design moments etc on the Direct Design Method (moment factors) from the code. So it did a full 3D frame analysis and then ignored the results in design. I do not know what they did for steel frame buildings.

Regarding their disappearance from the market, I understand they entered into a couple of large software contracts to supply specialised versions of Structdes, one I think with ACS and another with BHP in NZ, but I could be wrong on those, and ran into lots of development and financial problems.

 

[barrywilsons]

civeng80
The screen capture program that I use is "snip" in the accessories with "Microsoft Windows 7". You simply click on the thing, highlight the section of the screen that you want to capture and it appears in its own section of the screen and you tell it to "copy". You can then paste it anywhere.

Regarding the drawing segment of the "portal" program, I use it all the time to generate a basic layout for our draftys to work on. You need to check it to see that it has the right number of purlins and girts, but usually everything else is as I want it apart from the connections and cold formed sections. I decided their connections were far too conservative and design mine by plastic analysis. As for myself, I have never really learned CAD drafting and we employ dedicated draftys as I believe them to be much quicker that having an engineer work on it. It is possible to spend a fair bit of time setting the whole package up to create a generic drawing close to what you usually use. I got a bit lazy and didn't bother. I simply wrote a "check sheet" instead. Go through every item in the comps and on the drawing and tick the boxes when it's right.

 

[civeng80]

Hi Barry,

Thats what I do with the autocad drawings generated just make sure I get what I asked for, but not really use the drawings for drafting purposes. They look a bit dodgy.

I am running ms Vista but also have the snip tool, but BMD's Im not really all that interested in drawing with a black background they use a lot of ink and dont look good.

But Im going to go thru the tutorials and see what I can get out of them.

I'd given up on this software but now I have second thoughts.

 

[barrywilsons]

Hi Civeng80
There are a couple of ways to get around the black background. One way is to change the colors in strucdes. There is a menu somewhere that allows you to do that.

What I do is clip the picture and copy it to the clipboard. Open microsoft PAINT and copy into paint. Press the right mouse button and a list of options appear, select "invert color" and the BMD will change to a white background. You can then cut and paste it into your favorite word processor.

Best of luck.

 

[civeng80]

Barry,
I tried that and it gives some pretty nice looking BMDs. Thanks!
I also got it back to Dosbox and its probably a bit quicker.
Looks like I will be using this software again in the future.
This software never seems to give up the ghost.
Since its a finite element program, do you think it can analyse load bearing Tilt up panels ?
Im doing a job right now on this.

 

[barrywilsons]

Hi Civeng80,

I have done them occasionally as a mesh with grids at 300 centers. I allow the z value both ways. They have worked for retaining walls. I have done a few over the years and they have not failed on me (yet). There is also a concrete feature of the program suite. I have never used it.

 

[civeng80]

Hi Barry,
Im just wondering which part of the program you would do this in.
Ive never done a mesh grid before, could you explain briefly a bit about it.
Stiffness methods of analysis is OK, but FE methods a bit over my head at present.

 

[barrywilsons]

Hi civeng80,

I do not have the time to go into meshing right now but probably later in the week. While I remember it the Strucdes "Portal" program has a bug in that if you set up a shed with an open side (say a machinery shed) the program does not put ANY wind pressures on the remaining side wall. The work around is to put a wall at each end of the open side and a door of the same size in the wall. That way it works properly (to the old working stress wind code of course).

 

[civeng80]

Hi Barry

Thanks !

Ive never designed a portal frame with an open end.
But I do remember a bug is deflections (serviceability) limits which is quite high and gives some pretty big members, but there is a way out of it, simply by doing the serviceability checks independently.

Would really like to know how to set a mesh or grid. Are there any examples in the tuts or manual I could follow ?