Stone Adhesive 2

[lejam]

Stoneworks weight a lot and the back side is very smooth.. do you trust the so called stone adhesive is enough to hold the stone works for long time?

 

[dik]

They often use an adhesivie for securing capstones on segmental precast retaining walls and also for headstones in some cemetaries... you might check with these people...

Dik

 

[Archie264]

Stone panels are often anchored with copper wire, for what that's worth.

 

[BAretired]

I would not trust stone adhesive to hold stone in place on a permanent basis.

BA

 

[Ron]

It depends on the configuration of the stone and its thickness as to whether you can use adhesive. If stone panels (18"x18" or 24"x24") installed on vertical surface, do not rely on adhesive. Use mechanical attachment, either with wire or pins. I would not use copper wire as corrosion is an issue. I would use stainless steel pins or wire, allowing for thermal movement.

If small pieces of stone or faux stone, cementious adhesive (thinset) or mortar can be used. Follow the instructions provide by the Masonry Veneer Manufacturer's Association guide (a copy is attached).

 

[shobroco]

As Ron says, the configuration (weight, orientation, etc.) has a lot to do with the answer to the initial question. I wouldn't count on adhesive to glue a thick stone soffit in place, but I have used it for a thin veneer on walls many times. What is the difference between stone & ceramic tile with the correct adhesive?

 

[BAretired]

The difference is weight. I don't feel too threatened by ceramic tile coming loose and falling down but I feel very threatened by large chunks of stone coming loose and bouncing around in unpredictable ways. They would be a threat to life safety.

BA

 

[IRstuff]

Nonetheless, people do use only cement to hold up absurdly heavy chunks of stonework or masonry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_ceiling_collapse#Cause

However, bear in mind that the panel that collapsed was to be held in place with epoxied bolts; it was more poor execution that caused the failure.

TTFN
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[BAretired]

I'm not so sure it's a good idea to be hanging rocks overhead using any kind of support system. I don't mind a boring old drywall or exposed concrete ceiling and would feel a lot safer with those than a bunch of suspended rocks, any one of which could kill me if it fell on my head. Who needs that risk?

If you want to give nature a sporting chance to kill you, take a drive through the Rocky Mountains. Eventually, if you drive long enough, you may get your wish but most of us don't really want to risk getting squashed as we go about our daily business.

BA

 

[shobroco]

My point was that I can buy stone sliced to 1/2 or 3/4" thick just like a tile and possibly lighter than ceramic of the same thickness, & if I glue that to a wall, adhesive is perfectly acceptable. If I decide to glue 4" thick veneer stone to a soffit, I deserve whichever pieces hit me and probably a few that don't. Weight, orientation, & location mean everything when discussing the method of attachment.

 

[TomDOT]

IRstuff, the epoxy used for the Big Dig panels was severely deficient.

 

[lejam]

The panel of natural stone each weights about 10 lbs and it uses polymer modified mortax mix for adhesion and if even one piece falls down. It can be completely fatal so I can't imagine having it installed.

Does anyone know where to purchase aluminum design that looks like stone and almost indistinguisable from stone in appearance but entirely aluminum?

Attached is the stone works (size 2.7 meters height and 2 meters horizonal) I want to emulate but made of aluminum or even plastic adhere to concrete external wall.

 

[TomDOT]

How is it going to fall out of a wall? It is very, very common to have a mortared stone or brick veneer on houses around here, 2 stories high. The stones are frequently 10-20 lbs.

I can see the concern of gluing it in an overhead position, but as a wall the weight is supported by the next stone down, and ultimately the foundation.

 

[Archie264]

BA,

Good point! Life's risky enough without adding unnecessary risk.

I'm told that air brakes on trucks require energy to hold the breaks off. Therefore if the mechanism fails, the brakes engage. I don't know if that's true but, if so, I like it. That is, if the system fails it becomes safer, so to speak. Brilliant! But that's the opposite philosophy of suspending rocks, anvils, grand pianos, etc. above our heads...though it does make for some entertaining coyote/roadrunner cartoons...

 

[lejam]

TomDot,

The 2.7 meters vertical and 2 meters stone design is suspended above in the second floor just below the ground floor entrance to a commercial store. It's not continuous down.

How can polymer modified mortal mix support 10-20 lbs piece to a vertical concrete wall (even roughen)??

 

[1gibson]

Look into GFRC (glass fiber reinforced concrete.) It can be placed in a mold by hand (similar to fiberglass) to create a hollow panel. You can use integral color, or it can be stained, and it will copy the texture of the mold. It is commonly used for architectural restoration of old stone buildings.

 

[Archie264]

Whoops, my earlier comment was in regards to it being suspended overhead. That being said, poorly constructed brick veneers do collapse on occasion and they're not dependent on adhesive, unless, of course, you classify the mortar as such.

 

[IRstuff]

"the epoxy used for the Big Dig panels was severely deficient." That would be poor execution in my mind, since they failed to check the adhesive.

As for these blocks, if there are no concerns about earthquakes, that's one thing, but without even pins, you count solely on the shear strength of the adhesive and the support of whatever's directly underneath. Seems to me that epoxied pins would at least provide some level of cantilevered support of the block and not just depend on the adhesive alone.

TTFN
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[Archie264]

>>>"the epoxy used for the Big Dig panels was severely deficient." That would be poor execution in my mind, since they failed to check the adhesive.<<<

Perhaps so, but BA's point remains: if you don't suspend something above your head in the first place then it can't fall on your head.

Failures occur and we'll never be able to eliminate all risk from life. But whether gluing heavy slabs of ornamental stone above our heads for purely aesthetic purposes is a wise decision is another question.

 

[jittles]

I don't really see how this is any different than any other structural component. Lots of things we design could kill if they failed. That's why we do our calcs, and that's why specify a product with an ICC code report that shows a tested strength and the safety factors associated with it. It will also indicate the installation procedure.