Some engineers look at the implications of net Zero for 2050 for the UK

[GregLocock]

...without a magic wand. This is their second report, my bolding

"The group, which receives £5 million from Government sources, is interesting because it bases its recommendations on the brutal, and many would argue honest, reality of absolute Net Zero. It does not assume that technological processes still to be perfected or even invented will somehow lead to minimal disturbance in comfortable industrialised lifestyles. It could be further argued that its continued existence and pronouncements are important, since they highlight the dishonesty and deceit that surrounds many other Net Zero promoters."

No
airports
ships
flights
concrete
glass
bricks

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/04/28...emands-according-to-government-funded-report/

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[rb1957]

no, no, no, greg ... we here in Canada have fossil fuel producers who are already (or maybe soon will be) carbon neutral. Well they say they are (or will be) in their advertising ...

have you ever heard such rot !!

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

I've never advocated carbon 0... but, we may have to cut back a bit and there could be some serious changes in our lives in cutting back.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

Greg, I think they forgot...life as we know it.

 

[dik]

That may be in your future, hokie... just have to wait and find out...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

I guess the people who wrote that report didn't understand what their conclusion was supposed to be (ie rainbows and unicorns).

dik, no one has said, AFAIK, that you advocate this. But this is where the political rhetoric is going (now) ... Net Zero (by 2050) and no gas powered cars (by 2035).

Politicians can say this now, hopefully the people will rebel against the implications and the taxes and the "deadlines" will move to the right. Oh, and some people will get excessive grants to investigate ways to achieve the pointless (unachievable) goal and then come back for more.

We (several western nations) will waste a tonne on our money (ie taxes), which will redistributed to a few (ok, it will provide employment for some) and we'll see what the outcome is ...

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

You summed it up perfectly...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

But that’s the whole point. To meet the ‘targets’ imposed by the green extremists, we will destroy the economy, and still won’t achieve what they want. But then, some are never pleased.

 

[dik]

I have no idea of how this will end, hokie, but there could be some sigificant life changing issues.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

So you admit that you have no idea. Therefore, your comments can be disregarded. I will.

 

[GregLocock]

I trawled through the report (OK I used search) and couldn't find why they are not advocating a massive expansion in nuclear.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[dik]

at your peril, hokie...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

with caveats, nuclear is good... but, there should also be a reduction in the dependency for power, too. That's part of the solution.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

greg, where was that nice graphic you posted ?

nuclear, and not only fission. Start building fission power plants now (to be ready in 20 years). Increase research in fusion.

but they point out that so many other industries create a bunch of CO2. I wonder how much CO2 is created to manufacture solar cells, or wind turbine towers or batteries ?

and they didn't consider sailing ships, to keep international trade going. Yes, I know it is close to absurd, but those are the solutions the ZE requires.
And we Need international trade, and not just to build things. How much food could the UK grow ?

And hokie is right, they'll never be satisfied ... after CO2 it'll be CH4, and then H2O ! It's only logical ... once you tame one driver, the next one becomes critical.

But we should be more aware of our impact on the environment, which is manifold and not just CO2. And as large countries (India, China, Brazil) "develop" they should incorporate some of our lessons.
CO2 in the atmosphere is "bad", so stop burning coal. Plan for an electrically powered future, rather than following the "developed" economies through the fossil fuel phase.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[TugboatEng]

rb1957. I found this article where scientists set out to quantify the carbon cost of the lifecycle of a wind turbine.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352484720315298

They ended up finding percentages. Either the scientists don't know what a quantity is or, more likely, they didn't like the answer.

 

[GregLocock]

rb1957 that's from their previous report which is linked in the sceptic article.

Personally I think they are justifying why a large nuclear program is needed without actually saying it. Of course by 2050 while the UK are shivering in mud huts the Chinese will still be burning lots of coal.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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