Solidworks and Windows 7

[PaperClipFixesAll]

I recently was made aware that many applications (at least as far as XP is concerned) don't always fully utilize multiple-core processors as well as RAM over a certain amount. Therefore, my boss is considering upgrading to Windows 7 since it seems it more fully utilizes top-of-the-line workstation components. Is this true? Can anyone vouch that there is a substantial performance increase with Windows 7 on computers with multi-core processors and 4 or more GB of RAM?

Also, can anyone point me to a computer that is a perfect match for Solidworks, regardless of price?

 

[SBaugh]

From what I have been reading since your post is that Windows 7 is laggy when downloading files or when multi-tasking. To me that does not tell me its the best OS, however if you are wanting longevity in a computer its the way to go. Plus it will probably get better since its still a young OS. I have used WIndows 7 and prefer Vista over 7. I know Vista got a bad rap when it first came out, but after some twaeking of the OS it was not that bad. Still prefer XP's look though.

As for computers I will only use a Dell Precision Workstation for SW (T7500). The base model Dell offers is not going to be enough. I would soup it up with some high end components, if money is no object. You can get dual video card cards now each with 1.5GB of memory (that should help ). With 64-bit you can't exceed 128GB of RAM, however Motherboards don't support that much yet anyway. I would get 8-12 probably won't use that much for the next few years at least, but its there if you need it. Defeintly go with the i7 chips. They seem to be much faster today.

Of course this all depends on what you do with SW (except the i7 chip) and how big your assemblies are. Some of hte stuff above is overkill, varying on what you do. We build here Large Machine\Tooling Equipment. Some of our assemblies have made it up to 2000+ assemblies and opening them can take some time. However working over a network like we do... it does not matter how fast our computers are, because we are limited to our network and server speed. Only thing our computer helps is with stability, yet still the server can cause stability issues with the files open on our machine.

Hope that helps some.
Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

"If it's not broke, Don't fix it!"

faq731-376

 

[MadMango]

As far as 32 or 64-bit systems and existing applications/programs, some older apps were only written for 32-bit systems and will not utilize the other 32-bits or multiple processors. Vista and Win7 both come in 32-bit and 64-bit flavors, so you have to determine what you really desire. Since you are posting in the SolidWorks thread I'll assume that you are looking for increased performance related to CAD.

Increasing your performance is not so cut and dry, due to the various types of models and workflow you may have. Have a look at the various benchmarks that Anna has on her site, select one that is closer to the type of work you are doing today.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pz7wTpIkC7LA28ybEyxyTPw

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pz7wTpIkC7LAuGJ0evMeWQw

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pz7wTpIkC7LBfngm8bDDjTA

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pz7wTpIkC7LAIi-HmWLSlPw

Once you get a chance to digest all the information on the benchmark spreadsheets, you'll be in a better position to spec out a computer that you will give you the most bang for your buck, without wasting those engineering funds on computer overhead that will not be utilized.

Having said all that, when it comes to quick responding SolidWorks, you can't go wrong with a newer 64-bit OS, multiple processors, a certified graphics card and drivers, and the most memory your motherboard can handle.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[Updraft]

The good thing about the 64-bit Vista and Win-7 is that they automatically recognize and use all the RAM you can stuff in them. The 32-bit systems require some files to be changed to enable the OS to utilize more than about 2.5G of RAM.

With regard to multi-core processors, there are several things that must ALL be in place to get complete advantage:
1. The OS must be able to use multi-cores. I know that Vista and Win-7 do and I think that XP also does.
2. The application must be written to take advnatage of the multi-cores. Neither SolidWorks nor any other solid modeling system (that I am aware of at least) is written to take advantage of multi-cores directly. The software by its nature requires sequential computations.

That does not mean that you will not see a benefit of multi-cores, but more is not necessarily better. When I bought my system about two years ago the homework I did indicated that I would get more bang for the buck with a twin-core processor rather than a quad-core. The twin-core ran at a faster clock speed and was lower cost. The lower cost I would see at the moment of purchase, but the faster clock speed decision would benefit me for the life of the machine.

There are some apps that do directly benefit from more cores, such as photo rendering. FEA might also. If you are running SWX, Word, Excel, Outlook, and web browsers simultaneously then a twin-core processor can do it all. I haven't priced the chips so Twin vs. quad vs. n-cores might be practically the same price.

I would look for speed related items in the system (chip Hz, cache, etc.), good video, and all the RAM you can stuff into the box.

- - -Updraft

 

[Standing]

PaperClipFixesAll,
Check out the article "Installing SolidWorks 2009 SP5" on a Windows 7 Computer" on

http://www.solidmuse.com/

Standing
SolidWorks Pro 2009 x64, SP3.0, PDMWorks Workgroup, SolidWorks BOM,
HP xw8600, 64-bit Windows Vista Business, Service Pack 1
Intel Xeon CPU, 3.00 GHz, 16 GB RAM, Virtual memory 166682 MB, nVidia Quadro FX 4600

 

[beachcomber]

Quote -"Neither SolidWorks nor any other solid modeling system (that I am aware of at least) is written to take advantage of multi-cores directly"

Not necessarily true.
I think Unigraphics is, but more applicable to SolidWorks is the fact that Parasolid is multicore enabled and this will assist in some areas.
As a SolidEdge user working on some large assemblies in the past (30K parts) I have regularly seen 4 cores running at 100% when creating drawing views of these models. This may not be the case with SolidWorks because view creation is handled differently.
I'm sure it will help with analysis and rendering.

If cost of a system is not really a factor I believe you should go to a specialist CAD system builder and discuss your requirements.
If you are working on big assemblies then you will probably require more that 4GB of ram so you will therefore need to go to a 64-bit OS, whether that's XP, Vista or W7.
One other thing to remember is that not all applications are supported by W7. Some will require XP compatibility mode which is only available in certain versions of W7.
I know someone who recently upgraded his new Dell laptop to W7 via the free upgrade offer, only to find his old AutoCad and some analysis software wouldn't run.



bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

Where would we be without sat-nav?

 

[PaperClipFixesAll]

hmmmm...

So, if I'm understanding correctly, our current 2.XX Ghz Dual Core processors with 4GB of RAM is more than Solidworks can really take advantage of at the moment? We do handle FEA projects on occasion, but at least 90% of our work is standard drafting/modeling and working out the geometry of an assembly. Our largest project at the moment is a sort of jack-of-all-trades oil rig that's supposed to handle a drilling operation from start to finish (including well abandonment), so I'm sure you can imagine it has quite a few pieces. However, as one person mentioned, the network is probably the bottleneck in our case anyway and I don't think there's any faster networking method than ethernet at the moment. At this point, I'm thinking we should hold off about a year until Windows 7 gets some bug fixes and software updates and Solidworks starts taking advantage of more powerful hardware. Anyone agree?

 

[MadMango]

1. You don't mention if you are running a 32 or 64-bit operating system.
2. You don't mention what type of graphics card you are using.

These can make a huge difference in how well SW handles your modeling needs. If you are on a 32-bit OS, is your 3gb Switch enabled?

If you are going to be working on assemblies that have a large number of components (over 5k), then I think you would benefit from a 64-bit OS due to the additional memory that will be available to you. Memory alone will not save you, you need a real graphics card for CAD.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[PaperClipFixesAll]

we're on 32-bit XP
My graphics card is a NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450/4000 SDI, but I have an older computer, my boss and the draftsman have slightly newer and I'm sure higher spec'd graphics cards and I know for a fact they have Xeon processors.

How do I enable the 3GB switch? is it a hardware or software thing? IIRC, the computers were bought this way (4GB of RAM with 32-bit XP) so I would assume the switch would be enabled (it says I have 3.25 GB of RAM in my system info).

 

[Standing]

PaperClipFixesAll,

At this point, I'm thinking we should hold off about a year until Windows 7 gets some bug fixes and software updates and Solidworks starts taking advantage of more powerful hardware. Anyone agree?

I do not agree. At $50 to $100 per hour per employee (company cost of employee) with just 10% loss in speed would cost a lot over the year. Your PC's sound old enough to replace. Get a dedicated Engineering server, use PDM of some sort, work off your local drive and etc.


Standing
SolidWorks Pro 2009 x64, SP3.0, PDMWorks Workgroup, SolidWorks BOM,
HP xw8600, 64-bit Windows Vista Business, Service Pack 1
Intel Xeon CPU, 3.00 GHz, 16 GB RAM, Virtual memory 166682 MB, nVidia Quadro FX 4600

 

[Updraft]

If your network is a contributor to speed problems you can benefit that by using PDM. (You should probably be using it anyway.) PDM copies the files to a local vault on your hard drive. The only significant network traffic is when you open and close your sessions. During your work SWX is using the files on your hard drive and not the network, dramatically improving speed and other glitches.

- - -Updraft

 

[SBaugh]

MadMango is correct, please list your specs.

To fix the network issue you will need to go to a PDM system like PDMWorks. We have PDM here, but have not yet found a way to utilize it to our needs... that is one reason I was hired here to help with implantation.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

"If it's not broke, Don't fix it!"

faq731-376

 

[PaperClipFixesAll]

Well, I think I should make it clear that I work for a small company of 9 people: 4 engineers/draftsmen and 4 shop workers (final assembly and some welding is handled on site)and the owner's wife handling finances. The only server might as well be called the engineering server as his wife only uses it to a minimal extent.

I mean, ideally, yes, a 64-bit OS would increase speed, which would help all around, but if any conflicts or errors occur, it will be much worse than a little lag when loading files (which, to be honest, is pretty minimal for most assemblies) and a drop in FPS when dealing with huge assemblies. Also, the draftsman is very adamant about AutoCAD compatibility and someone in this thread reported that it won't work in 7, which is unacceptable.

Still, we are planning on buying a new computer for the shop manager since we had to take his workstation for the new draftsman starting on Monday and we plan to get something with Windows 7 to give it a try.

 

[SBaugh]

You have to look at longevity. Half of our company is still using AutoCAD, but here in Mechanical Engineering we use Solidworks. We have to do alot of conversations and such which I think is stupid. IMO I think if Engineering switches to Solidworks the rest should follow. Redrawing or using 2D in combination can lead to futher errors in the process. However I am not a CEO or president of a company.

With such a small company I would hope that there could be some way to work out a better process. Hopefully your boss sees that having a more fluid environment would not only benefit you as a worker, but as a business.

Maybe I just see the process different than most people, but the margin for error when using more than 1 CAD system within the same facility is dangerous.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

"If it's not broke, Don't fix it!"

faq731-376

 

[PaperClipFixesAll]

oh, well he primarily uses Solidworks, he just uses AutoCAD when he needs to redraw prints or something real quick for whatever reason because he's faster with AutoCAD. 95% of his work (or more) is Solidworks.

 

[MadMango]

That's a bad habit to encourage. What happens when the day comes when that "quick drawing" needs to be incorporated into a solid model? Someone is going to have to reverse engineer that 2D ACAD drawing, which amounts to double the effort.

I think given your work environment, I would push for the new Win7 workstation to go to your best engineer/designer, and bump his machine down to the Shop Manager. After all, you want to test a system in the conditions it will be used. I can't imagine the Shop Manager putting he computer through all it paces like someone in Engineering.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[AnnaWood]

For SolidWorks speed you want the fastest most modern cpu architecture you can buy. At this time that is a high clock speed Core i7 or the Xeon 3500 or 5500 series cpu.

SolidWorks is cpu bound.

CPU for speed, x64 bit OS for memory allocation.

You will benefit from getting a new computer with an up to date cpu with x64 bit Windows 7 and at least 6 gigs of memory.

A higher end video card is needed if you have big assemblies or parts with a lot of facets that you are rolling around on screen. The video card will improve performance of the screen regens in the user interface. It will not greatly speed up model rebuilds, the cpu is king there.

The question to go with a dual core or quad core is no longer valid. In the past the Core 2 Duo's were faster then their Core 2 Quad cousins. That is no longer true as you can get Core i7/Xeon 3500 or 5500 quads at a high clock speed and they will be much faster then the Core 2 Duos and Quads they replaced.

Run the benchmarks on my website and it will show you where your current hardware stands. The new Intel cpu's will probably offer a considerable speed boost.

Cheers,


Anna Wood
Anna Built Workstation, Core i7 EE965, FirePro V8700, 12 gigs of RAM, OCZ Vertex 120 Gig SSD
SW2010 SP0, Windows 7

http://www.solidmuse.com

http://www.phxswug.com

 

[ChrisDuncan]

NOTICE

Recently talking to my SW VAR, she said SW '10 has some issues with Windows 7, just a heads up, haven't experienced this personally. You'd surely expect possible problems with '08 and '09.

 

[beachcomber]

I have to agree with Scott - using different CAD systems is asking for trouble.
If someone does and ACad drawings and then it gets solid-modelled, which one is the master?
If its a simple componenet you might as well model it becauae its not going to take long to do it.
If its more complex then you should model it even if it takes a bit longer because you will reduce your drawing errors.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

Where would we be without sat-nav?