Great comments guys. Sorry it has taken a few days to get back to this, I have been moving from one of our offices to another one. For this particular piece of sewer the chance of it being related to the construction makes a lot of sense to me. I took a close look at the trench neerer the surface when it was safe to enter, and the clay fill soils were not very good. So what you guys are pointing out sounds resonable to me.
One bit of confusion is that I am getting some of the information on what has occured second or third hand, so I am not completely sure at which location some of what I have been hearing occured. Through out the city there is more than one location with similar problems so some of the info on how the pipe was crushed, or offset, etc. may be for some of the different locations. One reason the city is so keen on trying to figure out what is going on. We may have more than one cause.
The design engineer is planning on using an in-situ liner to rehabilitate some of the area of some nearby streets with degraded pipe that maybe not completely sinking but is deteriorating to some point. They videoed the line and it needs rehab. How good would you think a liner would be if my first hypothesis about pipe stiffness relative to ground stiffenes were the cause for some of the distress, and how good do you think it would be at rehabing areas that may have problems caused from the backfill, assuming they can get it past any obstructions? I understand that these liners are steam cured in place, so how ductile/ brittle will they be?
Msucog
- What kept the area of distress around the manhole from not expanding beyond about 3 or 4 feet, was it just due to the depth?
Lcruiser
- I believe the area in the pictures was a repair for a bypass line from the original failed one. But don't know when, that is why I think maybe they used concrete but maybe they broke the bypass line first, then they tried to repair with concrete? But the concrete encasement extened from the manhole all along the pipe to the next manhole so it looked to me like it was by design for some reason. I don't believe this is an ongoing thing. So there is some uncertainty in my mind as to why they have a concrete encasement. Any if this concrete encasement if only for this bypass line, or if maybe they used similar type encasement for other sewer lines in the city. I also don't have any data on the groundwater fluctuations, but suspect that it has been fairly steady at 6 to 10 feet for the last 100 years.
aeoliantexan
- what you are describing with the "flow failure" of a sand lense sound intersting to me. I did CPTs along several of the sewer lines in the city that they are looking to repair and definetly would go through some cleaner sand lenses, or some buried channels. That is one reason why I was suspecting some differential settlement / floation may have influenced the system in the past. If we had a large increae in pore pressures from liquefaction then you could speed up the piping or flow of the sand into a sytem preaty quickly. Or maybe just enought to get the process started, and then the rest slowly degrade over time with the hydraulic differences between groundwater head and the deep sewer. This area had major earthquakes in 1940, and 1979.
Rconner
- I am not certain of the exact location of the failure in relation to the manhole. But I am definetly looking to introduce more flexiblity into the system.
Howardoak
- the streets in the area are very poor so they may be getting torn up all the time by shink and swell of the clays in the area, so I think this was something different they noticed. Your pointing out the level of construction quality seemed to hit the target. I could just see them dumping a full load in the trench when the concrete was still green and something just tearing up the pipe.
Thanks everyone let me know what else you think.