Shelf Support Steel Angle Fastened to Cold Form Exterior Stud for Brick Veneer

[Hunter90]

Hi all,

Quite frequently there have been times where brick veneer support is missed and we are having to use the existing cold form exterior studs to fasten an angle to, to pick up brick veneer.

Couple questions based on this condition is

1. Through bolts to go through only 1 flange or extend through both flanges?
2. Do you need to have 2-through bolts with a distance d between them? Or does 1 bolt in tension and the compression is taken by the bearing face of the vertical angle leg (see image below)?
3. International Residential Code (IRC) R703.8.2.1 Support by steel angle specifies the use of a 4"x6"x5/16" into a double 350S162 cold-formed steel studs at max 16" o.c. with two 7/16" bolts with washer.
   1. What is the min. thickness for a 3.5in deep stud? is it a 350S162-33 (20 gauge)?
   2. Are the double 350S162 in the IRC meant to be back-to-back studs? Or boxed stud?
   3. Do the through bolts only go through 1 flange or extend through to both flanges?
   4. If it is back-to-back studs do you put 2-through bolts per stud flange i.e. 4 bolts total for a back-to-back condition? And is the orientation of the studs as shown below with a vertical distance d between the bolts?
   5. 

Please let me know as figuring out the local crippling/buckling of the flanges is uncertain for me. Or what is best practice in terms of design and analyzing/calculating?


I look forward to hearing from you,
Thank you.

 

[DaveAtkins]

I have never used bolts to connect a brick veneer shelf angle to cold formed studs. I have always used welds.

It is best to weld vertically, to the web, not horizontally, to the flange, because the flange can bend due to the tensile component of the moment.

 

[XR250]

I have never used bolts to connect a brick veneer shelf angle to cold formed studs. I have always used welds.

It is best to weld vertically, to the web, not horizontally, to the flange, because the flange can bend due to the tensile component of the moment.

I agree with this. Can't imagine the bolts ever lining up either. Probably need 16ga min. studs to actually get a decent weld though. I would use a loose lintel where possible.

 

[Hunter90]

I have never used bolts to connect a brick veneer shelf angle to cold formed studs. I have always used welds.

It is best to weld vertically, to the web, not horizontally, to the flange, because the flange can bend due to the tensile component of the moment.

Thank you,

Definitely agree about the vertical weld along the web will be able to resist the bending. Will have to look up cold form welding for weld sizes etc.

 

[Ron247]

XR50 & DaveAtkins: I have never had to attach a lintel to cold-formed studs, but other than alignment of the fasteners to the studs (especially on a rake), are there any other reason's you guys prefer welds to fasteners?

 

[XR250]

XR50 & DaveAtkins: I have never had to attach a lintel to cold-formed studs, but other than alignment of the fasteners to the studs (especially on a rake), are there any other reason's you guys prefer welds to fasteners?

I was heavily involved in that space earlier in my career. Getting anything built properly was always a challenge. For me, the biggest issue is alignment—which usually means they’ll only install half the fasteners—and how much of the flange gets mangled in the process. Load-bearing studs were always a mess. I much preferred a red-iron skeleton with light-gauge infill. Even then, I’d encounter far too many situations where the EOR failed to provide girts or other members needed to make the light-gauge design practical.

How many 12-gauge studs do I need to gang together before it’s just cheaper to switch to tube steel?

 

[DaveAtkins]

Because there will be tension in the bolt, it will bend the stud flange. I suppose you could make a bolt work if you used a plate washer to prevent the flange from bending, or if the load is light enough, perhaps justify the flange bending.

 

[jayrod12]

How many 12-gauge studs do I need to gang together before it’s just cheaper to switch to tube steel?

From my experience in light gauge, as soon as we need to consider 12 gauge studs is the time to consider red iron steel.

 

[XR250]

From my experience in light gauge, as soon as we need to consider 12 gauge studs is the time to consider red iron steel.

I agree. Please send a memo to the EOR's! Also, include verbage to let them know i am not responsible for computing the lateral loads on their buildings.

 

[jayrod12]

I agree. Please send a memo to the EOR's! Also, include verbage to let them know i am not responsible for computing the lateral loads on their buildings.

Will do, as soon as I figure out how to get architects to stop specifying depth, spacing and thickness of studs in their specs. And then complaining when they get slammed with a large PCN because the specs they used didn't work for the application. 3 5/8" 24 gauge studs @ 24" can't span 16 feet as an exterior wall? Who knew?

 

[Ron247]

Will do, as soon as I figure out how to get architects to stop specifying depth, spacing and thickness of studs in their specs. And then complaining when they get slammed with a large PCN because the specs they used didn't work for the application. 3 5/8" 24 gauge studs @ 24" can't span 16 feet as an exterior wall? Who knew?

That is more info than they have to supply where I tend to work. A single note saying " 6" cold-formed stud at 16" oc" is sufficient in their minds. And what gets supplied is the thinnest 6" depth with the narrowest flange available. No worry about stiffening lips or yield stress.

 

[jayrod12]

That is more info than they have to supply where I tend to work. A single note saying " 6" cold-formed stud at 16" oc" is sufficient in their minds. And what gets supplied is the thinnest 6" depth with the narrowest flange available. No worry about stiffening lips or yield stress.

Honestly that's preferable where I am. Because the light gauge is almost exclusively a delegated design item. I want them to say 6" studs, so that we know how much space they've accounted for, and a max spacing in case the cladding is dependent on it. But otherwise I don't want them hard specifying depth, spacing and thicknesses as 95% of the time, it's insufficient for the requirements.

 

[dvd]

What trade is installing the angle? Vertical uphill weld of 5/16" (or whatever thickness) angle to 16 ga seems chancy, especially if there is limited access. Bolting with field drilled holes seems pretty simple. If this was some mechanical gizmo I would lean that way.

 

[Ron247]

Honestly that's preferable where I am. Because the light gauge is almost exclusively a delegated design item. I want them to say 6" studs, so that we know how much space they've accounted for, and a max spacing in case the cladding is dependent on it. But otherwise I don't want them hard specifying depth, spacing and thicknesses as 95% of the time, it's insufficient for the requirements.

What I mean is the Arch is doing the entire wall design and cutting the structural engineer out. Their wall design just has that minimal info and nothing more. The city accepts it and then as long as the contractor supplies within the specified parameters, "Good to Go". I have seen 6" track with no stiffening lips used for studs in some places. Where I live, no one checks calcs even if they ask for them which is rare.

 

[jayrod12]

What I mean is the Arch is doing the entire wall design and cutting the structural engineer out. Their wall design just has that minimal info and nothing more. The city accepts it and then as long as the contractor supplies within the specified parameters, "Good to Go". I have seen 6" track with no stiffening lips used for studs in some places. Where I live, no one checks calcs even if they ask for them which is rare.

Oh, yeah that's not how most architects operate up here.