Seal Use

[xkcstructural]

I cant find it clearly stated any where, In the state of Colorado are you allowed with permission to seal a set of structural drawings using another P.E. Seal? I havent run it to this before, usually the person sealing it would do a final review and apply thier seal and signature. Some states dont allow for this but its not Clear in the rules for Colorado.

 

[dik]

I don't have a problem with that, as long as you check the work... and notify the other engineer that you are doing this. It's best to check with the local professional licensing board to see if OK.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

Why not use your own seal? That's how it is supposed to work, and the legal way of doing it.

 

[271828]

I don't understand the question. It sounds like another engineer was in responsible charge and gave you permission to apply his or her seal on their behalf. Is that it?

If so, then they still have to come back and sign each seal.

 

[Lomarandil]

Right. As I understand CO doesn't prohibit a second person (e.g. drafter) applying the seal under the instructions of the EOR, but the EOR still needs to apply the signature.

 

[271828]

In firms I've worked for, it was normal practice for an an admin employee (or just whoever has time) to apply the seals and then the principal comes in and signs all of them. On a big job with many sheets, and multiple copies, this can amount to hundreds of seals. Unless there's a specific rule against it in your jurisdiction, it seems OK to me.

 

[JStructsteel]

How would they know? At the end, the seal is on their wit YOUR signature. Whats it matter how it gets there? Its not 'sealed' until 'sealed and signed' right?

 

[xkcstructural]

The seal is in pdf and cad with the signature already. You just update the date. So 271828 has the situation correct it's just the seal and signature is one process done by the people at company and not the sole owner of said seal.

 

[dik]

I dunno... my seal is MINE! No one gets to use it. I've worked at a few companies where the department engineer seals all projects... in most cases it's a liability/insurance issue.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[xkcstructural]

Yeah I feel the same about sealing, it's not some assembly line type process. I want to be the last one to look at and touch the drawings/calculations I seal.

 

[271828]

I dunno... my seal is MINE! No one gets to use it. I've worked at a few companies where the department engineer seals all projects... in most cases it's a liability/insurance issue.

I think it's a good idea for a principal to seal everything. Someone around here told a story once about sealing a project, leaving the firm, and having to do something special to make the old firm reseal. It seems like anyone who's sealing should be a permanent part of the company.

 

[dauwerda]

Most states have adopted laws/language addressing the use of digital signatures on pdf's. A scanned version of a signature is very much not the same thing as a digital signature and is generally not an acceptable method of "signing" a drawing. Typically the seal (electronic) can be applied by anyone (i.e. the designer creating the drawing), this may even include an image of a signature. But, the pdf will still need to be digitally signed by the engineer.

https://juro.com/learn/digital-signature-vs-electronic-signature

Section 1.5 - A.2.a(1)(d) of the Code of Colorado Regulations (4 CCR 730-1) states:

"If electronically sealing on the cover page(s), Signature Dynamic Technology shall be used."

Signature Dynamic Technology is referring to digital signatures that are tracible.

The definitions in the same document also state the following:

Signature. The term signature shall include the terms “manual signature” and “electronic signature” and shall be defined as follows.

a. Manual Signature. A manual signature is the handwritten name of a person applied to a document that identifies the person, serves as a means of authentication of the contents of the document, provides responsibility for the creation of the document and provides for accountability for the contents of the document.

b. Electronic Signature. An electronic signature is a digital authentication process attached to or logically associated with an electronic document and shall carry the same weight, authority, and effects as a manual signature. The electronic signature, which can be generated by using either public key infrastructure or signature dynamics technology, must be as follows.

(1) Unique to the person using it.
(2) Capable of verification.
(3) Under the sole control of the person using it.
(4) Linked to a document in such a manner that the electronic signature is invalidated if any data in the document are changed.

Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) is a technology for authenticating users and devices in the digital world where one or more trusted parties digitally sign documents certifying that a particular cryptographic key belongs to a particular user or device. The key can then be used as an identity for the user in digital networks.
Signature Dynamics Technology is a commercial eSignature software application solely dedicated to the secure routing, authentication and verification of electronic signatures including an audit trail, which functions to dynamically