Saving Calculations

[msquared48]

How long do you save your calculations?

What are the legal requirements in your state to do so?

[flush]

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[jberg]

I believe that we are keeping our calcs for about 10 years. I have seen drawings from the 60's in our plan room, for any future reference. The business is located in Wisconsin, by the way.

Joel Berg

 

[BAretired]

I don't reside in a state, Mike but my calculations from 1969, the year I started my practice, are still in my files. How long they will remain there after I have shuffled off this mortal coil...remains to be seen.

So far as I am aware, there are no legal requirements in the Province of Alberta about how long calculations should be kept. I started with a firm in Toronto, Ontario whose files dated back to the beginning of their practice which I believe was about 1940. The firm is still going strong even though the original principals are deceased. I am sure those files remain intact today. They called it "dead file storage". Everything was neatly folded up and stored in metal boxes.

BA

 

[msquared48]

Including the retired principals?

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[msquared48]

Part of the reason I ask, is that there is a 6 year statute of limitations in Washington regarding the professional liability of structural engineers, but the guidance from the state board to save files ad infinitum. To me, this is inconsistent.

This virus is taking over my garage...literally...and I am looking for an excuse to get rid of some of the older ones. Not the drawings, just the calcs. I am thinking of investing in a goat and turning him "accidentally" on purpose loose in the garage.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[kslee1000]

Floor live files - 5 years for general project, 10 years for special/extreme important project, from the date of project completion (construction). Then move to dead storage for as long as the media can survive.

 

[BAretired]

Calculations do not take up very much space. I don't know what your problem is. How much filing space can a few calculations take? Engineering drawings and shop drawings take more space than your calculations, don't they? If not, perhaps your calculations are too long winded.

Only a six year statute of limitations? You are bloody lucky. Until recently, we had no statute of limitations. Now, we have a ten year limit, but it doesn't seem to work too well because I am now being sued for a report I did in 1994.

BA

 

[msquared48]

Need any help with that? I have lots of time on my hands.

Did you ask your lawyer how they can sue past the statute? Is there another issue involved that has a longer statute?

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[BAretired]

Mike,

Let us say there is a 10 year statute of limitations. This is currently the case in the Province of Alberta. It was enacted in 1999. Prior to 1999, there was no statute of limitations, so contractors, engineers, architects and others were liable for consequences of their errors for life and even beyond.

Now, in the new scenario, let us say that Party 'A' sues Party 'B' within the 10 year limit, say in 9 years and 10 months after the last involvement of Party 'B' in the project.

Party 'B' consults with his lawyer and determines that he relied on the report of Party 'C' to take the actions for which he is being sued by Party 'A'.

Party 'B' and his lawyer dither about for five more years and eventually decide to involve Party 'C', so they third party him fifteen years after he wrote his report.

And that, sir, is the situation in which I find myself now.

BA

 

[msquared48]

Boy that's close.

Remember that the 10 years is more than likely timed from the date of the last transmittal or communication between the original two parties - you and your client, not the third party.

When did you receive final payment for the report?

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[desertfox]

Hi msquared48

You could free up some garage space by having some of the old paper calculation files scanned onto a computor disc.
That way you still have a record of the calculations should you need them.

desertfox

 

[msquared48]

That works great if it is done gradually and if all the papers in the file are 8.5 X 11. Not the case here, plus, I am dealing with records since 1992.

I discarded everything prior to 1992 in 1998 when I found out the statute of limitations, but before talking to the board. Oh well....

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[csd72]

Are you sure thats not 6 years past the occurrence of the problem e.g. infinity plus 6.

Thats not a joke by the way, thats how it works in some states of Australia.

 

[jike]

That is also how it works in our state, 7 years past the discovery of the problem.

 

[JRGse]

Mike

Why not convert the calcs to PDF files and save them in eclectronic format?

 

[miecz]

Mike,

In lieu of a goat, have you considered an accidental flood? We lost all our old files a few years back when our basement was flooded. Best thing that ever happened.

 

[kslee1000]

I wouldn't trust PC media, a lot of time files are unretriveable due to change in software, or hardware. Also, in the early days, I lost quite a lot of files from crashes, mulfunction hard-drives, or simply by deleting without noticing.

Microfilm/microfiche maybe better choice.

 

[msquared48]

csd and Jike:

I know what you are saying, but, when I had and could afford errors and omissions insurance, I remember the agent specifically telling me that when I retired, in order to be completely protected, I had to maintain the insurance for a minimum of six years past my date of retirement. I believe that this is where I got the six year figure.

Maybe I should re-check this as it was an insurance agent that gave me the information...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[RonRoberts]

Mike,

I think it's the Statute of Repose you should be looking at.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/limitations_by_state/Washington.html

I've been at insurance workshops where speakers have suggested that you dispose of your calculations as soon as the permit is issued. They inevitably contain errors and it just provides ammunition for the attorneys.

 

[BAretired]

Statutes of limitations in Canada vary from province to province and it sounds as if in the USA it varies from state to state.

If it is seven years from discovery of the problem, then no useful limitation period exists for a contractor, architect or engineer because the problem can arise many years after his involvement. It can arise in tort where a third party, not connected with the original contract, suffers injury due to the negligence of one of these parties and sues.

Prior to 1999, there was no limitation period in Alberta. Engineers had to keep their insurance premiums up to date throughout their life and until the estate was settled.

About thirty five years ago, there was a law office next door to mine. One of the lawyers was the daughter of a structural engineer who died a few months earlier. He, or rather, his estate was sued for a sizable chunk of money for something he had done twenty years earlier. She told me that she was very thankful that she had kept up his professional liability insurance premiums. In the end, the case was dropped, but it could have easily been different.

BA