Our military is getting clobbered with these road side bombs. Isn't it possible to have these detonated before these explosions happen? After these devices are remotely controlled, presumably, electonically. I am sure that the frequencies which is programmed is limited, so why not come up with a trigering device that will go thru the range of frequencies and detonate these bombs prematurely. With all the electronic engineers and scientists working for the feds, such triggering device is well within our capability; and think of all other applications such as driving around Sunnys and Shiite militia territories and blowing up their caches.
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Road Side Bombs
- Thread starter chicopee
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MikeHalloran
Mechanical
Now, everyone knows about your proposed tactic.
Everyone on both/all sides, that is.
This forum is regularly crawled by Google, so anyone with Internet access can find out what's going on here without even bothering to sign up or read all of the content.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
Everyone on both/all sides, that is.
This forum is regularly crawled by Google, so anyone with Internet access can find out what's going on here without even bothering to sign up or read all of the content.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
It doesn't matter, this idea is about 2 yrs late. They stopped using RF initiation, once we started using RF jammers. They've got a ton of ways to do the deed. The latest is simply a direct connection with a buried twisted pair.
The only reason we're not losing as many troops now is that they've been mostly concentrating on civilian and Iraqi police targets.
TTFN
Eng-Tips Policies FAQ731-376
The only reason we're not losing as many troops now is that they've been mostly concentrating on civilian and Iraqi police targets.
TTFN
Eng-Tips Policies FAQ731-376
IRstuff,
You are partially correct. Civilians and Iraqi police as targets have been making headlines recently, but the reason is partially because we have been taking better care of identifying potential threats.
That is another reason we have seen an uptick in suicide bombers; the remotely detonated explosives aren't as effective anymore.
Reidh
You are partially correct. Civilians and Iraqi police as targets have been making headlines recently, but the reason is partially because we have been taking better care of identifying potential threats.
That is another reason we have seen an uptick in suicide bombers; the remotely detonated explosives aren't as effective anymore.
Reidh
I think history supports the statement that, in general, it's easier to kill than prevent being killed.
Or, in other words, the bad guys can always build a weapon that get's around our defenses.
In still other words, defenses are reactionary, as as such always "late".
The only ways to really prevent this is (a) make friends, or (b) kill them first.
Or, in other words, the bad guys can always build a weapon that get's around our defenses.
In still other words, defenses are reactionary, as as such always "late".
The only ways to really prevent this is (a) make friends, or (b) kill them first.
Just setting the mines off ahead of you may not be a popular tactic. What if kids are playing next to the bomb? Or an ambulance is driving by ahead of you? Or there is a foot patrol near by etc. It’s one thing to have the terrorists blow them up it’s another for you to blow them up by setting off the terrorists weapon.
Triggering the weapons as you go is fine when there are no ‘collateral damage’ issues, hence flail tanks and the like (or their electronic equivalent) are great when you don’t have non combatants or your own troops in the way and you need to clear the way quickly. However, when you can’t guarantee the area is clear you have to use the more slow and steady approach or just avoid the weapons (which jamming the signal is effectively a way of doing).
Plus with the technique of exploding the mines/IED ahead of you, be it mechanically or electronically, you rarely get close to 100% clearance rate. This is why for most of the mine clearance activities in ex war zones most of the work is done by hand. Some machines have been developed which give a higher clearance rate but I’m not sure how widespread their deployment is yet.
What I don't get is the South Africans developed mine resistant vehicles years ago (70s/80s) (at least 3 different types) due to similar problems that US is now having in Iraq.
Now I'm not saying they'd stand up to some of the more advanced/larger road size weapons but they'd have to do better than the basic HUMVEE etc.
Looks like the US may have some but apparently not yet enough.
Of course the real solution is to secure the roadways so that the insurgents can’t plant the bombs in the first place but the amount of troops this would take isn’t popular.
Triggering the weapons as you go is fine when there are no ‘collateral damage’ issues, hence flail tanks and the like (or their electronic equivalent) are great when you don’t have non combatants or your own troops in the way and you need to clear the way quickly. However, when you can’t guarantee the area is clear you have to use the more slow and steady approach or just avoid the weapons (which jamming the signal is effectively a way of doing).
Plus with the technique of exploding the mines/IED ahead of you, be it mechanically or electronically, you rarely get close to 100% clearance rate. This is why for most of the mine clearance activities in ex war zones most of the work is done by hand. Some machines have been developed which give a higher clearance rate but I’m not sure how widespread their deployment is yet.
What I don't get is the South Africans developed mine resistant vehicles years ago (70s/80s) (at least 3 different types) due to similar problems that US is now having in Iraq.
Now I'm not saying they'd stand up to some of the more advanced/larger road size weapons but they'd have to do better than the basic HUMVEE etc.
Looks like the US may have some but apparently not yet enough.
Of course the real solution is to secure the roadways so that the insurgents can’t plant the bombs in the first place but the amount of troops this would take isn’t popular.
The idea of using a frequency sweep to initiate IEDs prematurely depends on the bomb being very unsophisticated. It's easier to create a remote control which is resistant to this sort of attack than to make one that isn't - after all, you'd be surprised if you came up with a simple device that could unlock every car within 50 yards, or make every mobile phone within the same range ring. That doesn't mean to say that there's no hope: as others have already hinted, all you really need to be able to do is to shout so loud that the receiver can't hear the command signal.
The other recentish development - especially in the Shiite area looked after by MNDSE is the advent of Explosively Formed Projectile IEDs.
Not only do these seem to have the capacity to knock big holes in improbable thicknesses of armour, but they seem to be able to so so at significant standoffs with a corresponding increase in the width of corrisor you have to clear.
(Note - all public domain information, largely culled from a recent edition of Jane's Intelligence Update)
A.
The other recentish development - especially in the Shiite area looked after by MNDSE is the advent of Explosively Formed Projectile IEDs.
Not only do these seem to have the capacity to knock big holes in improbable thicknesses of armour, but they seem to be able to so so at significant standoffs with a corresponding increase in the width of corrisor you have to clear.
(Note - all public domain information, largely culled from a recent edition of Jane's Intelligence Update)
A.
MikeHalloran
Mechanical
Public domain or not, I just don't think it's a good idea to discuss tactics re an ongoing war in a global public forum.
Call me crazy.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
Call me crazy.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
Mike,
Anything anyone has put here has been on the TV/Internet news or in published media. And I don't mean industry magazines etc, just regular newspapers for the most part.
Anyone interested can find far more informative or useful stuff elsewhere on the internet.
The most significant concern is that anyone who has, or is likely to get, a security clearance should be careful what they post, just in case the people doing the clearance think like you
.
While in principle I see your point in practice I dont think it's an issue.
If you have real concern then red flag the OP and let the administrators decide.
Anything anyone has put here has been on the TV/Internet news or in published media. And I don't mean industry magazines etc, just regular newspapers for the most part.
Anyone interested can find far more informative or useful stuff elsewhere on the internet.
The most significant concern is that anyone who has, or is likely to get, a security clearance should be careful what they post, just in case the people doing the clearance think like you
.While in principle I see your point in practice I dont think it's an issue.
If you have real concern then red flag the OP and let the administrators decide.
MikeHalloran
Mechanical
I have met people who do security clearances. They are more paranoid than me, and have absolutely no sense of humor. In that respect we are different.
We are alike in thinking that anyone can infer quite a lot about what is going on in secrecy by gathering and combining many bits of information that each have no obvious intrinsic value. Some data points may even be most useful in absentia.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
We are alike in thinking that anyone can infer quite a lot about what is going on in secrecy by gathering and combining many bits of information that each have no obvious intrinsic value. Some data points may even be most useful in absentia.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
This thread so far is pretty benign, considering that a recent article in Time Magazine demonstrated how to create a shaped charge device capable of penetrating armor. And, it was written in such a way that you could do it as a high school science project, perhaps even younger. Now that is scary!
--Scott
--Scott
"offocial" security issues can be very tricky.
Its a sad fact of life that there is a lot of classified material discussed in the open media. This doesn't mean it's unclassified; doesn't mean its OK to discuss; and doesn't mean any common sense is involved!
Its also very possible that occasionally John Doe will state something dozens have already stated and/or read, yet John Doe will be facing official actions, and may have his clearance revoked, and this could evenm impact his company's clearance and therefor impact the employment of many, many people.
All in all, this is why I err on the safe side of issues like this (actually, I know zilch about these specific issues, hence I'm safe).
Its a sad fact of life that there is a lot of classified material discussed in the open media. This doesn't mean it's unclassified; doesn't mean its OK to discuss; and doesn't mean any common sense is involved!
Its also very possible that occasionally John Doe will state something dozens have already stated and/or read, yet John Doe will be facing official actions, and may have his clearance revoked, and this could evenm impact his company's clearance and therefor impact the employment of many, many people.
All in all, this is why I err on the safe side of issues like this (actually, I know zilch about these specific issues, hence I'm safe).
The deciding point is whether you already have access to the information through classified channels. If so, only then are you enjoined from discussing such matters.
However, if you have no access to what is classified, then that's a different matter altogether.
TTFN
Eng-Tips Policies FAQ731-376
However, if you have no access to what is classified, then that's a different matter altogether.
TTFN
Eng-Tips Policies FAQ731-376
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