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RFIs 5
- Thread starter StrucEngg
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Have you ever heard a drill instruction say please to their cadets? You are telling someone what to do and there is no need for please.
After saying that, I have caught myself writing please on shop drawings and RFI's. I try not to, but they sometimes slip through if I am trying to process them quickly.
After saying that, I have caught myself writing please on shop drawings and RFI's. I try not to, but they sometimes slip through if I am trying to process them quickly.
It's really important to understand that there's a huge difference between being direct and being rude. I usually avoid the use of "please" in my RFI responses, but here's a few examples that I found in my files. These aren't verbatim.
Q: We're gonna knock some bricks out of a wall. Help?
A: OK. After you rip out the ceiling, please notify engineering ASAP if the wall supports stuff.
Q: Something needs to change. Can we do that?
A: Sure. Please be sure to redline the redlines.
Q: We're gonna knock some bricks out of a wall. Help?
A: OK. After you rip out the ceiling, please notify engineering ASAP if the wall supports stuff.
Q: Something needs to change. Can we do that?
A: Sure. Please be sure to redline the redlines.
+1 spieng. It doesn't really matter what verbiage you use as long as the point gets across. You won't get in trouble for being too polite. Nor will you get in trouble for not being stern enough - letting them know 'you mean business'. That is usually received by contractor as "get a load of mr. big-wig engineer over here!". At least when I was working on the other side of the fence thats the vibe we'd get a lot. But don't waste your time writing poetry. I tend to be long winded and find myself wasting a lot of time writing useless filler when a couple sentences will do.
MIStructE_IRE
Structural
“Please make the column 650mm in diameter”
“The column is to be 650mm diameter”
The first option above could possibly be seen by some claims conscious contractor as a doorway into a variation..
The second one is a direct response to a question asked.
My Dad always taught me - its nice to be important, but its more important to be nice. I generally live by this, but there’s a time and a place for “please”
“The column is to be 650mm diameter”
The first option above could possibly be seen by some claims conscious contractor as a doorway into a variation..
The second one is a direct response to a question asked.
My Dad always taught me - its nice to be important, but its more important to be nice. I generally live by this, but there’s a time and a place for “please”
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There's a significant difference between being brief and being rude.
Sometimes being minimalistic is appropriate. Sometime it's overly curt. Polite can sometimes just be adding a one sentence explanation of why you're doing what you're doing so that they don't just think you're being stubborn. Sometimes offering an alternate solution to help them with their problem is polite. Other times it might involve giving them a quick call to clarify what they're asking about instead of giving them a useless answer. Other times, they just want a confirmation and replying with "Agreed" is the best thing you can do for them.
Being polite is giving consideration to others. Please and thank you can have their place, but shoving them in there doesn't make things polite. If you're not actually being considerate it will really just make you look more like a jerk.
Sometimes being minimalistic is appropriate. Sometime it's overly curt. Polite can sometimes just be adding a one sentence explanation of why you're doing what you're doing so that they don't just think you're being stubborn. Sometimes offering an alternate solution to help them with their problem is polite. Other times it might involve giving them a quick call to clarify what they're asking about instead of giving them a useless answer. Other times, they just want a confirmation and replying with "Agreed" is the best thing you can do for them.
Being polite is giving consideration to others. Please and thank you can have their place, but shoving them in there doesn't make things polite. If you're not actually being considerate it will really just make you look more like a jerk.
I try to never use “to be”, because the subject doing the “to being” could be misinterpreted as someone else or the owner. “The column diameter is 650mm” is as clear and direct as I think you should be.
Shop drawing comments and rfi responses are virtually legally binding, so either use imperative forms (use a325 bolts) or declarative statements (bolts are a325). If the contractor misinterpreted the drawings, I generally use imperative statements. If the contractor is asking a question, I go back and forth between the two forms. I think it is overkill to use shall unless you are clarifying the subject performing the work. Generally, the contractor is always the subject of the contract, so referring to them can be redundant. Referring to the contractor too much can also lead to the illogical side effect of giving the contractor room to wiggle out of scope because you didn’t state “the contractor shall”. Furthermore, I try to only say “contractor” when addressing delegated design items, coordination items with entities outside of the contract, safety items, or notifications.
Saying please to me is a matter of your personality. Do what you’re comfortable with. Personally, I don’t use please when directing contract items directly related to the scope in the contract documents or shop drawings, but will use it in correspondence and requests, such as “please coordinate the widgets with the gadgets” or “please see our attached responses”.
Shop drawing comments and rfi responses are virtually legally binding, so either use imperative forms (use a325 bolts) or declarative statements (bolts are a325). If the contractor misinterpreted the drawings, I generally use imperative statements. If the contractor is asking a question, I go back and forth between the two forms. I think it is overkill to use shall unless you are clarifying the subject performing the work. Generally, the contractor is always the subject of the contract, so referring to them can be redundant. Referring to the contractor too much can also lead to the illogical side effect of giving the contractor room to wiggle out of scope because you didn’t state “the contractor shall”. Furthermore, I try to only say “contractor” when addressing delegated design items, coordination items with entities outside of the contract, safety items, or notifications.
Saying please to me is a matter of your personality. Do what you’re comfortable with. Personally, I don’t use please when directing contract items directly related to the scope in the contract documents or shop drawings, but will use it in correspondence and requests, such as “please coordinate the widgets with the gadgets” or “please see our attached responses”.
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RFIs often involve more than technical specifications, and the "stuff" that's around and referencing the "shalls" can use "please"
So, there, I used "please."
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
So, there, I used "please."
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
I think part of the issue people have with it is it's just a little wishy-washy and conversational. You need to be 100% explicit in whatever the requirement is, and please do something sort of gets translated as please do it if you feel like it, rather than please do it no matter what.
Don't forget your RFI's are a legal document in terms of the contract. Worst case you end up in court defending what you wrote. Best case contractor actually does what you wrote.
Don't forget your RFI's are a legal document in terms of the contract. Worst case you end up in court defending what you wrote. Best case contractor actually does what you wrote.
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