Responsible Managing Employee for Fire Protection 3

[badal]

I am a licensed engineer in TN and several other states. My firm in a consulting only firm and we provide fire protection design intent drawings on a daily basis. I have been contacted by a contractor, that I do not know, to fill a position in a new division they are trying to start. They have apparently been in the business for several years doing fire protection related work, but no installation. They are trying to get a contractors license to do small repair work. TN requires them to have a registered architect, engineer or someone with a NICET certification on staff. I have read all I can find about this position, which is not much, but would like some other opinions. This would not replace my current job. It is not required I be in their office frequently (according to this contractor), but I’m not entirely sure of what my responsibilities would be. TN says my name and number would be on service and red tags. Does this mean I have to inspect any work they do? I do not want to jeopardize my license or my relationships with local contractors. I also, obviously, want this to be worth my time ($$$). Any opinions?

 

[JedClampett]

It sounds like they're trying to get an engineer to list on their organization chart to fill some licensing/legal/liability obligation. It sounds bad. I would run away.

 

[PEDARRIN2]

I would be leery of this as well.

Make sure they are not needing a licensed fire protection engineer (FPE) instead of a licensed engineer (PE). There is a difference. Some jurisdictions like the Corp of Engineers require the FPE to do fire suppression design work.

They may only want to do repair work now, but could in the future decided to get into the construction market. If that happens, it could also be considered a conflict of interest in that you could be desiging for your engineering firm and "consulting" for the contractor who is doing the installation.

If they want to do sprinkler work, they would be better off, in my opinion, getting the NICET certified individual than getting a licensed engineer (PE or FPE). Most of the fire protection engineers I know do not want to do sprinkler layout, although they know how to do it. The NICET certified individuals do it every day.

 

[ztengguy]

can you meet with them and take these questions?

 

[cry22]

Being on staff does not mean you will sign and seal fire protection drawings
As long as you do not have to sign any permit documents, or any documents for that matter, I'd say, you're OK.
just make sure to state in your employment offer that you will not sign anything that you are not licensed for.

 

[badal]

I met with the contractor yesterday and we discussed this in some detail. I feel much better about doing this and we are going to make the next steps to gets this division off the ground. I have several questions that only people in the industry can answer, so here goes:

1) At this time we do not intend to bid any jobs. The idea is to take the client base he already has and perform riser inspections and small repair jobs. This requires an RME license in TN. I have told him that if he ever does want to bid jobs (and I’m sure he will once the staff is in place), that he will not be able to bid on anything I design as a PE. Is there another way that a conflict of interest could develop?

2) I cannot under any circumstances jeopardize my PE license. This is how I make my living and my current firm relies on me to be able to seal drawings. Assuming I abide by #1 above, is there a way being contractor A’s RME and firms B’s PE will be considered improper or could somehow lead to discipline or the loss of my license? I know I may be way off, but I’m trying to cover all bases. It appears this can be done, but I’m looking for input.

3) The contractor will have insurance for this division, obviously. I have errors and ommisions insurance through my current firm. My current firms insurance will not come into play since I’m not designing anything and we think that since I will be an employee of the new business that anything I do will be covered by that insurance. Is there anything else I need to add or does my current E & O need to know about the new venture?

4) He has offered me part ownership of the new company. Right now this division doesn’t exist, so I own part of nothing. Would this be a standard way of being compensated or is there a way it would be considered improper? What should I ask for?

5) Honestly, if we stick to the game plan described in #1 above, I don’t see that there will be much, if anything, for me to do. We will hire a competent person to do the inspections and minor repairs and I will have to sign off on them. Am I missing something that would require me to put hours and hours into this?

6) This is kind of a separate thing, but what additional training or certifications should I get to increase my competence in this area? I am a PE and produce design intent drawings for fire protection weekly, but we all know that is far different than working for a contractor and actually having to install what’s on the paper. As stated above, we aren’t needing to produce shop drawings now, but I feel I need to increase my knowledge in this field as much as possible.

 

[JedClampett]

I'll only offer an answer to 4). Ownership equals liability. Depending on how the agreement is written (partnership, LLC, etc.), you could have lawyers going after your personal property if someone falls climbing the stairs.

 

[TravisMack]

Part ownership will equal liability. Accidents happen... you could be on the hook for job site accidents. What if they take a system down to work on it and the fitter doesn't turn the control valve back on? Most system failures are due to closed valves. You have liability in all of that as an owner. You may not have that as an employee. So, that is things to look into.

How much E&O do they have for their design work. Some simple repairs that involve add/relo of sprinklers may require minimal design that is likely just done in the field. The contractor insurance policies typically cover their liability for installation issues, but if it is faulty design, the liability protection may not be adequate. Again, mistakes happen. They mistakenly replace an extended coverage sprinkler with a standard spray sprinkler (I've seen this in buildings - total honest mistake), they have to move a head out of the way of a relocated light and it is now too far from the walls - heaven forbid a fire in that location that gets out of control. Again, simple, honest mistake, but things do happen.

Ownership in the division can be great. Just make sure you have all of your bases covered.

As far as classes, try the AFSA or NFSA classes. They may be helpful. When I started about 25 years ago, my boss used to make me go back in the fab shop and try to build it if I had a question if something could be done or not. If I couldn't do it, then why should I expect the fitters to do it. Also, he would send me out with the superintendent on jobs I drew so he could show me what was right, what was wrong and what could be better.

Just some things to consider for you. It sounds like it could be a great opportunity if done right.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[badal]

Thank you for your response. I'm getting more comfortable with this as time goes on. This new company would/will be incorporated, so that would protect me personally, I believe. Just don't want to do anything improper to lose my only source of income.

 

[IRstuff]

In some states, liable professionals cannot incorporate to the point of eliminating personal liability. Presumably, that's anyone who has to carry E&O or malpractice insurance

TTFN
faq731-376

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