I'm looking for someone who uses autocad 2008 with a sister program called hydracad used for designing overhead fire sprinkler systems. my problem is that my rapid line features have changed suddenly. the arrow that shows where you can break a line or go to a sprinkler head is now so small i can't see it unless i zoom in alot. if this makes sense to anyone let me know. i've contacted autocad and hydracad and they have given me nothing!!
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations TugboatEng on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
rapid line in hydracad messed up
- Thread starter twd22285
- Start date
TravisMack
Mechanical
I have run into the same problem, with no idea how to fix it. Please post an answer if you get it figured out.
Thanks!
Thanks!
stookeyfpe
Specifier/Regulator
Can you do hand calculations? Prove your analysis.
SprinklerDesigner2
Mechanical
"Can you do hand calculations? Prove your analysis."
You make me so happy I could just cry!
I've tried HydraCad and didn't like it. Make me old school if you want but I felt it attempted to do to much for the designer and in the process ended up taking even more time.
The drawings had to be perfect for both calcs and stock listing which, for me anyway, resulted in more money then if I had input HASS, stocklisted it myself and been done with it.
The hard lock bothered me too.... other then vehicles the most expensive single item in the entire company was that little itty bitty hard lock.
You make me so happy I could just cry!
I've tried HydraCad and didn't like it. Make me old school if you want but I felt it attempted to do to much for the designer and in the process ended up taking even more time.
The drawings had to be perfect for both calcs and stock listing which, for me anyway, resulted in more money then if I had input HASS, stocklisted it myself and been done with it.
The hard lock bothered me too.... other then vehicles the most expensive single item in the entire company was that little itty bitty hard lock.
- Thread starter
- #6
stookeyfpe, SprinklerDesigner2,
I don't use it to calc, or to list i do that with hass and by hand with the listing. i just use the program to design (draw) the system. there are 4 designers in our office, we all have the same equipment and same programs; yet my computer is the only one that has had this problem. I think my office is on an old indian burial ground or something i can't catch a break this week!!!
CarlB i tried looking into the insunits with no luck thankyou though. the most frustating thing is that hydratec can't even tell me the problem. oh well what do ya do???
I don't use it to calc, or to list i do that with hass and by hand with the listing. i just use the program to design (draw) the system. there are 4 designers in our office, we all have the same equipment and same programs; yet my computer is the only one that has had this problem. I think my office is on an old indian burial ground or something i can't catch a break this week!!!
CarlB i tried looking into the insunits with no luck thankyou though. the most frustating thing is that hydratec can't even tell me the problem. oh well what do ya do???
TravisMack
Mechanical
SD2, et al:
This has really taken a turn, but I will chime in with my 2 cents and experience in the CAD drawings programs.
As with most everyone else, my first CAD drawing program was straight autoCAD. I swore when I started AutoCAD that I could just draw faster by hand. I didn't see how this new fangled thing was gonna help much. Well, that was about 15 years ago. I learned that AutoCAD itself was a great tool, but only as good as the input you have for it. If you have the building backgrounds accurate, then you can do a lot with AutoCAD to make it faster than hand drawing, but not a huge increase in production.
I was then moved to a program call OmniCADD. This was a decent program. It allowed me to increase my production some, but it was very rigid in the way you were required to draw if you wanted to be able to use the calcs and listing. I found it often took more time to stick with the rigid OmniCADD requirements. I mostly used OmniCADD for the tools that would allow me to put the sizes and lengths on the drawings as I went along. I still did manual input for calculations and fablisting. OmniCADD, in my opinion, was just a slight step above AutoCAD for the sprinkler guys.
After about 2-3 years on OmniCADD, I moved over to HydraCAD. I thought this was the end all of fire sprinkler system software. I don't find it very rigid at in the way you need to draw. I could draw and calc just certain areas of a drawing. If I changed a calc, it could change the drawing sizes. The background clean up tools in HCAD are great. The text cleanup tools are pretty good as well. I have found that the fabrication listing in HCAD is excellent for the piping, but seems to lack somewhat in the loose material. The material database management would take a full time person to constantly update pricing and material that could be used for a project. As a result, I would generate the fab list from HCAD, but just delete the material list and manually create a material list by hand, or in MS Excel. I would say that HCAD allowed me to increase production by 200% above straight AutoCAD and HASS or other similar calculation programs.
In the last couple of years, I have been working with AutoSprink by MEPCad. I will have to say that this is by far the best fire sprinkler software package I have seen. I listed (accurately) an 80,000 sq ft school (so you can imagine all of the offsets and crazy piping) in about 20 minutes. I had the fab list checked over just for cautionary measures. It matched the drawings 100% for piping and loose material. I would easily say that AutoSprink has allowed me to increase my production 200%+ over HydraCAD. AutoSprink is a full 3D modeling program. The calculations are instantaneous. In HCAD, it may take 5-15+ minutes to set up a calculation area, depending on how complex. I can typically set up a calc area in AutoSprink in about 5-60 seconds. The calculation process is instantaneous, so you can adjust your sizes and you are done with the calcs. It is very nice. One of the drawbacks of AutoSprink is the text cleanup. HydraCAD has all other programs I have seen just blown away. Their text cleanup is the best. AutoSprink does have some quirks that can be very frustrating, but overall, I feel it is the far superior product. And no, I don't work for the company or get a kickback for seats sold
AutoSprink costs about $4500 for the 1st year, and $3300 / yr after that. That fee includes updates and full tech support. HydraCAD is $3000 - 5000 to purchase and $960 / yr for updates and $960 / yr for unlimited tech support. So, the fees are comparable. But, if I can increase production by 200%, then the cost is negligible.
If anyone has any direct questions on any of these programs, feel free to ask questions here. I would be happy to share my experiences with any/all.
This has really taken a turn, but I will chime in with my 2 cents and experience in the CAD drawings programs.
As with most everyone else, my first CAD drawing program was straight autoCAD. I swore when I started AutoCAD that I could just draw faster by hand. I didn't see how this new fangled thing was gonna help much. Well, that was about 15 years ago. I learned that AutoCAD itself was a great tool, but only as good as the input you have for it. If you have the building backgrounds accurate, then you can do a lot with AutoCAD to make it faster than hand drawing, but not a huge increase in production.
I was then moved to a program call OmniCADD. This was a decent program. It allowed me to increase my production some, but it was very rigid in the way you were required to draw if you wanted to be able to use the calcs and listing. I found it often took more time to stick with the rigid OmniCADD requirements. I mostly used OmniCADD for the tools that would allow me to put the sizes and lengths on the drawings as I went along. I still did manual input for calculations and fablisting. OmniCADD, in my opinion, was just a slight step above AutoCAD for the sprinkler guys.
After about 2-3 years on OmniCADD, I moved over to HydraCAD. I thought this was the end all of fire sprinkler system software. I don't find it very rigid at in the way you need to draw. I could draw and calc just certain areas of a drawing. If I changed a calc, it could change the drawing sizes. The background clean up tools in HCAD are great. The text cleanup tools are pretty good as well. I have found that the fabrication listing in HCAD is excellent for the piping, but seems to lack somewhat in the loose material. The material database management would take a full time person to constantly update pricing and material that could be used for a project. As a result, I would generate the fab list from HCAD, but just delete the material list and manually create a material list by hand, or in MS Excel. I would say that HCAD allowed me to increase production by 200% above straight AutoCAD and HASS or other similar calculation programs.
In the last couple of years, I have been working with AutoSprink by MEPCad. I will have to say that this is by far the best fire sprinkler software package I have seen. I listed (accurately) an 80,000 sq ft school (so you can imagine all of the offsets and crazy piping) in about 20 minutes. I had the fab list checked over just for cautionary measures. It matched the drawings 100% for piping and loose material. I would easily say that AutoSprink has allowed me to increase my production 200%+ over HydraCAD. AutoSprink is a full 3D modeling program. The calculations are instantaneous. In HCAD, it may take 5-15+ minutes to set up a calculation area, depending on how complex. I can typically set up a calc area in AutoSprink in about 5-60 seconds. The calculation process is instantaneous, so you can adjust your sizes and you are done with the calcs. It is very nice. One of the drawbacks of AutoSprink is the text cleanup. HydraCAD has all other programs I have seen just blown away. Their text cleanup is the best. AutoSprink does have some quirks that can be very frustrating, but overall, I feel it is the far superior product. And no, I don't work for the company or get a kickback for seats sold
AutoSprink costs about $4500 for the 1st year, and $3300 / yr after that. That fee includes updates and full tech support. HydraCAD is $3000 - 5000 to purchase and $960 / yr for updates and $960 / yr for unlimited tech support. So, the fees are comparable. But, if I can increase production by 200%, then the cost is negligible.
If anyone has any direct questions on any of these programs, feel free to ask questions here. I would be happy to share my experiences with any/all.
- Thread starter
- #8
travis mack,
i figured out how to solve the small arrow problem!! on your desktop right click the hydracad v45 enblem, go to properties, then click on the compatability tab, then change your compatability to the most recent version available. in my case my properties were set to 95' version of windows and i changed it to 2000 version. it worked but i don't know why. maybe this is a fix to that problem. by the way is mepcad that far ahead of the curve.
tony
i figured out how to solve the small arrow problem!! on your desktop right click the hydracad v45 enblem, go to properties, then click on the compatability tab, then change your compatability to the most recent version available. in my case my properties were set to 95' version of windows and i changed it to 2000 version. it worked but i don't know why. maybe this is a fix to that problem. by the way is mepcad that far ahead of the curve.
tony
TravisMack
Mechanical
Tony:
Truthfully, MEPCad is that far and farther ahead of the curve! It is amazing how much my production has increased.
T
Truthfully, MEPCad is that far and farther ahead of the curve! It is amazing how much my production has increased.
T
3Dsprinkler
Mechanical
Have to agree with TravisMack about the quality and effectiveness of Autosprink. I’ve much of the same history and learning process, from Autocad to SIMOCad to HydraCad and finally Autosprink. When it was time to leave HydraCad I was offered a free transition to SprinkCad, but chose to pay for Autosprink instead, and have never looked back.
Autosprink is intuitive, fast and easy to learn. I’m currently using the VR5 version and are eagerly waiting for the upcoming VR7/8 version, compatible with Vista.![[thumbsup2]](/data/assets/smilies/thumbsup2.gif "[thumbsup2] [thumbsup2]")
3Dsprinkler
Autosprink is intuitive, fast and easy to learn. I’m currently using the VR5 version and are eagerly waiting for the upcoming VR7/8 version, compatible with Vista.
3Dsprinkler
KINGSPRINKLER
Mechanical
I agree with 3D, Autosprink is my choice & I to am eagerly waiting for VR7/8, compatible with Vista.
Glen
Glen
there seems to be great amounts of love for AutoSprink.
I currently work for a engineering firm where I use autocad 2005 with hydracad. I started designing without anything just blocks and polylines and loved some of the advantages it has offered. I had one day of "training" and everything else is self taught. I can use hydralist works fine listed some large jobs, but when i wanted to know not only HASS but hydracalc was when problems started to arise. Every time I would work on a job in hydracalc it would lose all my data....
but thats not the important part of this post.
In the next 6-9 months I plan on leaving my current full time employer. From which i will still receive freelance work from him as well as some other fire sprinkler design/eng firms (one of which uses hydracad). He has given me the option (terms not discussed or set) on purchasing the liscence from him because I am his only employee who knows how to use it.
What I would like to know other peoples opinion on sprinkler design software:
-which do you like and why
-do other programs offer an import feature (hyracad can bring in omnicad and other formats into their own)
-what do there final versions look like (format)
-user support (cost quality)
any other input would be greatly appreaciated
I want to spend money setting myself up the right way one time, that doesn't always happen but we can try
thanks
sean
I currently work for a engineering firm where I use autocad 2005 with hydracad. I started designing without anything just blocks and polylines and loved some of the advantages it has offered. I had one day of "training" and everything else is self taught. I can use hydralist works fine listed some large jobs, but when i wanted to know not only HASS but hydracalc was when problems started to arise. Every time I would work on a job in hydracalc it would lose all my data....
but thats not the important part of this post.
In the next 6-9 months I plan on leaving my current full time employer. From which i will still receive freelance work from him as well as some other fire sprinkler design/eng firms (one of which uses hydracad). He has given me the option (terms not discussed or set) on purchasing the liscence from him because I am his only employee who knows how to use it.
What I would like to know other peoples opinion on sprinkler design software:
-which do you like and why
-do other programs offer an import feature (hyracad can bring in omnicad and other formats into their own)
-what do there final versions look like (format)
-user support (cost quality)
any other input would be greatly appreaciated
I want to spend money setting myself up the right way one time, that doesn't always happen but we can try
thanks
sean
TravisMack
Mechanical
Sean:
I have a freelance design "firm." It is myself and an FPE. He is currently using hydracad because that is what he was on prior to me hiring him, and I needed him productive at day one. I also have hydracad as well as AutoSprink myself.
Since you will be a design only "firm," your profits will hinge on design production. As an installation contractor, you can over run on design hours and still come out OK on the job since design is a very small portion of the cost of most projects. However, if design is your product, you need to be the fastest and the most accurate you can be.
HydraCAD is very nice for an autocad based system. It is a good package and very powerful for fire sprinkler work. It has a great calc program (I think you just need an hour or 2 of fine tuning on the training and you will see it works great). The listing program has something to be desired, but is still very good. The text cleanup on hydracad is the best in the industry. The new SMART tools routines in hydracad are also very impressive.
However, with all of the benefits of HydraCAD, AutoSprink still far surpasses it for production and accuracy in my opinion. I can also take a hydracad, omnicadd or sprinkcad file and convert it to Autosprink fairly quickly. When my employee needs me to pick up on a project or help on some calculation issues, I often find it easier and quicker to convert to AutoSprink instead of using HydraCALC. It is really that fast.
Now, as a startup company, you need to look at software costs. A new license of AutoCAD will run about $3600. I just bought one from HydraCAD. A new version of HydraCAD will run about $3000. You then have the option of upgrades only, or unlimited support. The upgrades only is $80/month and upgrades + unlimited support is $160 / month. I choose the $80 route because I rarely need tech support and it is cheaper for me to pay the $100/hr that is charged for HydraCAD tech support. I think that I may have paid $200 in the last 5 years for HCAD tech support.
AutoSprink is going to run about $4500 +/- for the initial purchase. You then have a yearly fee of $3300 or so to renew the license. They provide unlimited tech support and updates. There is not an option for updates only. I have the full blown Platinum Version with all of the bells and whistles, so that is my pricing. You still need to buy AutoCAD, so those costs are the same. I say you need AutoCAD because there are just some things you need it for (binding xrefs, basic cleanup, etc). So, AutoSprink is about $1500 more initially and anywhere from $1500 - $2500 extra per year. But, I can guarantee that you will make up the difference in the first month or so by an increase in production. However, you MUST go to the initial autosprink training for 1 week. You would be a fool to try and self teach AutoSprink. There are some many things it can do and all of its little nuances, you really need the training. They do not have a decent manual because they want people to do the training. It would be a very difficult program to learn on your own. I honestly don't recall the training prices, but it is probably on their website, or you can call to find out.
I have no financial interest in you purchasing AutoSprink or Hydracad. The things above are just my opinions from using the programs for a couple of years.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do. You can go to and read the AutoSprink forums to see what people are saying on there about the program.
I don't know if this site is the best for providing you tech support for HydraCAD or Autosprink. However, if you go to the AutoSprink forums, you will see postings by me all over it. You can get my email from there and I will be able to provide you with further answers on both programs if you need.
I have a freelance design "firm." It is myself and an FPE. He is currently using hydracad because that is what he was on prior to me hiring him, and I needed him productive at day one. I also have hydracad as well as AutoSprink myself.
Since you will be a design only "firm," your profits will hinge on design production. As an installation contractor, you can over run on design hours and still come out OK on the job since design is a very small portion of the cost of most projects. However, if design is your product, you need to be the fastest and the most accurate you can be.
HydraCAD is very nice for an autocad based system. It is a good package and very powerful for fire sprinkler work. It has a great calc program (I think you just need an hour or 2 of fine tuning on the training and you will see it works great). The listing program has something to be desired, but is still very good. The text cleanup on hydracad is the best in the industry. The new SMART tools routines in hydracad are also very impressive.
However, with all of the benefits of HydraCAD, AutoSprink still far surpasses it for production and accuracy in my opinion. I can also take a hydracad, omnicadd or sprinkcad file and convert it to Autosprink fairly quickly. When my employee needs me to pick up on a project or help on some calculation issues, I often find it easier and quicker to convert to AutoSprink instead of using HydraCALC. It is really that fast.
Now, as a startup company, you need to look at software costs. A new license of AutoCAD will run about $3600. I just bought one from HydraCAD. A new version of HydraCAD will run about $3000. You then have the option of upgrades only, or unlimited support. The upgrades only is $80/month and upgrades + unlimited support is $160 / month. I choose the $80 route because I rarely need tech support and it is cheaper for me to pay the $100/hr that is charged for HydraCAD tech support. I think that I may have paid $200 in the last 5 years for HCAD tech support.
AutoSprink is going to run about $4500 +/- for the initial purchase. You then have a yearly fee of $3300 or so to renew the license. They provide unlimited tech support and updates. There is not an option for updates only. I have the full blown Platinum Version with all of the bells and whistles, so that is my pricing. You still need to buy AutoCAD, so those costs are the same. I say you need AutoCAD because there are just some things you need it for (binding xrefs, basic cleanup, etc). So, AutoSprink is about $1500 more initially and anywhere from $1500 - $2500 extra per year. But, I can guarantee that you will make up the difference in the first month or so by an increase in production. However, you MUST go to the initial autosprink training for 1 week. You would be a fool to try and self teach AutoSprink. There are some many things it can do and all of its little nuances, you really need the training. They do not have a decent manual because they want people to do the training. It would be a very difficult program to learn on your own. I honestly don't recall the training prices, but it is probably on their website, or you can call to find out.
I have no financial interest in you purchasing AutoSprink or Hydracad. The things above are just my opinions from using the programs for a couple of years.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do. You can go to and read the AutoSprink forums to see what people are saying on there about the program.
I don't know if this site is the best for providing you tech support for HydraCAD or Autosprink. However, if you go to the AutoSprink forums, you will see postings by me all over it. You can get my email from there and I will be able to provide you with further answers on both programs if you need.
- Status
Similar threads
- Question