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Raise For a junior engineer 1
- Thread starter EITsingh
- Start date
HornTootinEE
Electrical
Figure out how you've improved yourserlf and how you have added value to your department or company, then figure a good way to present it to your boss.
Email or ask to have a meeting set aside on such and such a day to discuss your compensation. Meet, present, and if your company is like my previous, they'll turn you down and tell you "we are paying you at 95% of our already fixed paygrade "midpoint" for your arbitary engineering level based on nothing but time served, so you don't get a raise-wait until year end when everyone else gets their raises and we'll give you up to 2% if you are an all-star!"
If they are decent and you are doing a good job, learning alot, adding value, and present it well, I'd like to think you'll get that raise.
If you don't get a raise, and it's not some HR type crap reason, then ask how you have to improve to increase your compensation. If your boss can't tell you, find a new boss because he won't be worth any type of career development for you.
I may sound cyincial but I just lived through this same scenerio several times with my past employer/supervisor. I worked in a high activity area with very little senior engineering support, so it was a "learn as much as you can as fast as you can" environment. I saw projects like no one in our company had ever seen, including the senior engineers in other locations. My boss actually told me and three other engineers standing nearby that we could be replaced off the street by a new grad tomorrow that was just as productive. Well, it's been 4 months since I gave notice, 3 since I left, and he has yet to find a suitable replacement. Sad part is, it was my engineering partner that is feeling the brunt, the boss hasn't missed a lick... He still getting his bonuses and big raises. Dilbert through and through.
But, fight the fight and good luck!
Email or ask to have a meeting set aside on such and such a day to discuss your compensation. Meet, present, and if your company is like my previous, they'll turn you down and tell you "we are paying you at 95% of our already fixed paygrade "midpoint" for your arbitary engineering level based on nothing but time served, so you don't get a raise-wait until year end when everyone else gets their raises and we'll give you up to 2% if you are an all-star!"
If they are decent and you are doing a good job, learning alot, adding value, and present it well, I'd like to think you'll get that raise.
If you don't get a raise, and it's not some HR type crap reason, then ask how you have to improve to increase your compensation. If your boss can't tell you, find a new boss because he won't be worth any type of career development for you.
I may sound cyincial but I just lived through this same scenerio several times with my past employer/supervisor. I worked in a high activity area with very little senior engineering support, so it was a "learn as much as you can as fast as you can" environment. I saw projects like no one in our company had ever seen, including the senior engineers in other locations. My boss actually told me and three other engineers standing nearby that we could be replaced off the street by a new grad tomorrow that was just as productive. Well, it's been 4 months since I gave notice, 3 since I left, and he has yet to find a suitable replacement. Sad part is, it was my engineering partner that is feeling the brunt, the boss hasn't missed a lick... He still getting his bonuses and big raises. Dilbert through and through.
But, fight the fight and good luck!
First, I'd try and find out what the typical process for raises, reviews etc. is at your employer. Did this not come up at all during the hiring process? From my limited experience there's usually talk about reviews and seeing how you're doing in X months etc.
Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
- Thread starter
- #6
Thanks for the insight, i had my review after 5 months after joining when i asked them to give me fulltime employment with benefits, it was supposed to be done after 3 months of probation but just lingered due to busy schedule of my boss(he is a designer and manager of electrical as well).
Usually the annual raise is only 3-5% only and if you get a offer from another competetor consulting firm they usually try to match it.
ish
Usually the annual raise is only 3-5% only and if you get a offer from another competetor consulting firm they usually try to match it.
ish
Twoballcane
Mechanical
Are you a part timer or on contract? In either case, if you are not a full time employee, you are way down on their priority list. However, to answer your question, to get beyond a merit raise is to show that you have done your job well and then add three other things that you have done beyond your job description or part of the job description in the next pay level. Also, having a good relationship with your boss and your boss’s boss will help grease the skids to a better raise or even a promotion.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”
"People get promoted when they provide value and when they build great relationships"
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”
"People get promoted when they provide value and when they build great relationships"
JedClampett
Structural
What kind of crummy place are you working for? They grudgingly give raises (and evaluations), but maybe if you get a job offer they might think about matching it? Unless there are extenuating circumstances (visa status, potential mates, live next door, etc.), I would start interviewing and find a place where workers get compensated for their value. And I would save them the decision of matching the offer by just resigning.
Sounds like the old fashioned engineering sweat shop. I though these died out in the 70's.
Sounds like the old fashioned engineering sweat shop. I though these died out in the 70's.
I though these died out in the 70's.
No, Thatcher moved them all to the UK in the 80s. I worked in quite a few through the big recession of the early 1990s: not much fun at the time but enough for me to appreciate a good job when one comes along.
No, Thatcher moved them all to the UK in the 80s. I worked in quite a few through the big recession of the early 1990s: not much fun at the time but enough for me to appreciate a good job when one comes along.
moltenmetal
Chemical
I don't know where you are or what the labour market conditions are in your area. However, I can tell you that over the past 20-30 years, when you regress the Ontario salary survey data, an engineer makes (in total cash compensation) roughly 10% more per year plus cost of living, every year until their 10th year. 10 years after graduation they are making 2x their starting salary in constant value dollars (i.e. adjusted for inflation). Beyond year 10, they make a salary that is more or less constant in constant value dollars unless they increase in experience level or leave engineering entirely. So if you're not getting 10% per year, you're likely being taken advantage of.
Many find that the only way to stay on, or get back on, that pay scale rise, is to switch jobs. That's a balancing act though, as too many job jumps can make you far less attractive to employers unless you intend to become an independent contractor.
Many find that the only way to stay on, or get back on, that pay scale rise, is to switch jobs. That's a balancing act though, as too many job jumps can make you far less attractive to employers unless you intend to become an independent contractor.
JedClampett
Structural
But it's in Canadian money. So a 10% raise only works out to 8%.
CorBlimeyLimey
Mechanical
?? When was the last time you checked the exchange rate?JedClampett said:
JedClampett
Structural
I should of known with engineers I couldn't get away with an old exchange rate joke.
moltenmetal
Chemical
C'mon up, if you think the grass is greener here...if you can find it under the snow!
The survey data is pretty clear, here at least. On average, engineers here are earning (in total cash compensation) roughly 2x their starting salary after ~ 10-15 years of experience, and after that the salaries grow little beyond cost of living year to year. So that's 10% of STARTING SALARY per year, or thereabouts, i.e. a declining raise every year until you reach the "cost of living" plateau at roughly 2x your real dollars starting salary. So it is now, and so it was 20 years ago when I first saw the data. I seriously doubt that it's a lot different on average in the 'States.
In Ontario, we have a good salary survey with a wide range of employers responding, although it's harder to get your hands on now than it used to be. The employers always b*tch that government employees skew the data, but it is a pretty broad sample and it gives you data by experience level, years from graduation, and composite numbers by region and industry. The starting salaries haven't grown at the same rate as the cost of living, i.e. engineers aren't earning as much in relative terms as they were 20 years ago, but it's not too far off that track either.
I managed to keep to that track, but only by making two job moves in my 1st 5 years- and more important than that, knowing what I was worth to my employer in dollars and cents terms and being unafraid to gently remind them of this- and of the survey data as well. Frankly I don't care much about money- I'm no big spender so I always have enough- but what matters to me is the respect that it embodies. I'm good at what I do and I take poor compensation as a sign of disrespect.
It's easy to get ripped off in your first few years of employment (I did, especially at the first job). It's tough to insist on fair compensation these days when junior engineering jobs are fairly hard to come by (i.e. there are more junior engineers looking for jobs than there are jobs in engineering by a long shot, so it's a bit of an employer's market). But as anybody who understands the time value of money knows, the early money is the most important to your future (assuming you don't fritter it away on "entertainment"). Staying silent won't get you what you want, that's for sure.
The survey data is pretty clear, here at least. On average, engineers here are earning (in total cash compensation) roughly 2x their starting salary after ~ 10-15 years of experience, and after that the salaries grow little beyond cost of living year to year. So that's 10% of STARTING SALARY per year, or thereabouts, i.e. a declining raise every year until you reach the "cost of living" plateau at roughly 2x your real dollars starting salary. So it is now, and so it was 20 years ago when I first saw the data. I seriously doubt that it's a lot different on average in the 'States.
In Ontario, we have a good salary survey with a wide range of employers responding, although it's harder to get your hands on now than it used to be. The employers always b*tch that government employees skew the data, but it is a pretty broad sample and it gives you data by experience level, years from graduation, and composite numbers by region and industry. The starting salaries haven't grown at the same rate as the cost of living, i.e. engineers aren't earning as much in relative terms as they were 20 years ago, but it's not too far off that track either.
I managed to keep to that track, but only by making two job moves in my 1st 5 years- and more important than that, knowing what I was worth to my employer in dollars and cents terms and being unafraid to gently remind them of this- and of the survey data as well. Frankly I don't care much about money- I'm no big spender so I always have enough- but what matters to me is the respect that it embodies. I'm good at what I do and I take poor compensation as a sign of disrespect.
It's easy to get ripped off in your first few years of employment (I did, especially at the first job). It's tough to insist on fair compensation these days when junior engineering jobs are fairly hard to come by (i.e. there are more junior engineers looking for jobs than there are jobs in engineering by a long shot, so it's a bit of an employer's market). But as anybody who understands the time value of money knows, the early money is the most important to your future (assuming you don't fritter it away on "entertainment"). Staying silent won't get you what you want, that's for sure.
"10% a year raise? Sign me up! "
"If Canadian engineers are getting standard 10% raises, we should all move to Canada! "
In the vast majority of cases (USA or Canada) salary increases are not much in the way of raises at all. It's changing jobs. For some reason, most employers have a hard time increasing your compensation as your value goes up. Unless you leave, work for someone else for a few years, then get hired back (with a nice salary jump each way.)
Year 0-2: 2% net raise.
Change jobs to Employer #2, get 25% raise.
Year 3-7: 4% net raise
Change jobs to Employer #1 OR #3, get 40% raise.
Et cetera.
"If Canadian engineers are getting standard 10% raises, we should all move to Canada! "
In the vast majority of cases (USA or Canada) salary increases are not much in the way of raises at all. It's changing jobs. For some reason, most employers have a hard time increasing your compensation as your value goes up. Unless you leave, work for someone else for a few years, then get hired back (with a nice salary jump each way.)
Year 0-2: 2% net raise.
Change jobs to Employer #2, get 25% raise.
Year 3-7: 4% net raise
Change jobs to Employer #1 OR #3, get 40% raise.
Et cetera.
GregLocock
Automotive
Here's my pay rates
1979 1.6 as an apprentice, then to uni
1982 8 straight out of uni,
1984 12 running a lab
1989 19 best job ever
1990 16 stupidly took pay cut to work in a new country NEVER do this.
1995 22 left that place
1996 30 decent bump with new job
1997 37 went back to previous employer (good tactic)
Now 80
so in 30 years since leaving uni that's a factor of 10, so that's 8% per year.
Which shows what a damn fool way of looking at it this is, since it is so reliant on exchange rates and the starting salary.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
1979 1.6 as an apprentice, then to uni
1982 8 straight out of uni,
1984 12 running a lab
1989 19 best job ever
1990 16 stupidly took pay cut to work in a new country NEVER do this.
1995 22 left that place
1996 30 decent bump with new job
1997 37 went back to previous employer (good tactic)
Now 80
so in 30 years since leaving uni that's a factor of 10, so that's 8% per year.
Which shows what a damn fool way of looking at it this is, since it is so reliant on exchange rates and the starting salary.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
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