Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations cowski on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
"Fire the M.B.A.s and let engineers run the show......" 5
- Thread starter MJCronin
- Start date
I think engineers would be better running the US government than MBAs. After about 5 minutes searching I found a K$50 annual grant to an outfit that funds gardening in Manhatten. There must be millions of such grants for non-essential causes that are driving the world financial system to ruin.
HAZOP at
HAZOP at
OWG, how good was Hoover?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I think I'd be awesome running the show but given the diverse spread of opinions I've seen on this site over time on relevant matters, I'm not convinced all Engineers would necessarily run the US govt better than the current bunch of lawyers etc.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I think I'd be awesome running the show but given the diverse spread of opinions I've seen on this site over time on relevant matters, I'm not convinced all Engineers would necessarily run the US govt better than the current bunch of lawyers etc.
Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
I nearly put Carter as well, as I thought he had an engineering back ground, but a quick Google search didn't confirm it.
Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
Among the many management "innovations" or fads (like matrix management etc) was the idea that engineers should be in charge and, uniquely so far as I can work out, created and Engineering and Marketing division with sales as a subset of Marketing.
Irrespective of any individual's own capability, collectively this was a total failure. I have seen it fail before even without this formal organisation. But don't get me wrong, I have seen some pretty disastrous failures when other disciplines gain an ascendancy. So it isn't simply that engineers aren't suited to dominate, as a class, though there are good examples of engineers who have created and managed top notch companies, these are often the exceptions rather than the rule.
Ditto inventors. They can't let go. "This is my design and this is how I want to have it made." I have personally lost time and money trying to work with some of these types. No matter how much you tell them that this is how their idea should be packaged and this is where the money is, they can't accept it. It's their baby.
And of course, we all know the dangers of letting the bean counters run the show.
But sticking with engineers, amongst whom there were no star performers and where there was no understanding of all the other necessary skills and abilities to produce a good product:
Example 1:
A water meter manufacturer and been around for 200years. A leading supplier.
In 1963 they produced a new water meter, and engineering had a field day.
The resultant design was based on a mix of existing manufacturing methods and some new but included all sorts of novel features. All good features that in time were adopted - by other manufacturers.
The clients referred to it as a "Rolls Royce" of water meters. They bought the competing design. Cheaper, less filled with novelties and produced using innovative modern assembly methods which the design and manufacturing methods were developed to support.
Example 2:
A leading supplier of niche market high spec sensors.
Engineering rightly respected for that but when tasked with producing a more general use sensor, couldn't let go of the specification enough to deliver. Sure they designed it and produced it, but the sales of the niche market high end sensor still outsold all the supposedly low end sensors combined.
We can all find examples in any industry of the converse, of course, where engineers or whoever, sees an opportunity and can't get management on board.
This is when you find escapees from the original company setting up shop down the road and doing what they want very successfully.
All too often engineers want to make what they want to make and think it sales' job to sell it.
Sales keep selling what clients want to buy
Marketing is needed to bridge the gap.
It has to be a collaborative effort managed by someone who can manage, whatever their discipline.
The right product is the one the client will buy.
Sales will report wish lists from clients and try to sell stuff the company doesn't make because they think that once hey have an order, some one will deliver the goods. They do this because, sometimes, it works.
Someone has to decide what the market needs, can be manufactured and will make a profit.
Engineers can say what they can make.
They often don't have the ability to determine the difference between what the clients likes and what he will pay for.
All the different departments and skills have a role.
In the end it really shouldn't matter what the origins of the decision makers so long as they can make enough good decisions to outweigh the bad and keep the company afloat.
To allow any form of unbalance means the number of bad decisions often outstrips the ability of good decisions to compensate.
And good managers are always in short supply in all disciplines. In some other ares, it may be difficult to find good engineers, good sales people and so on.
But that is the real world and it doesn't necessarily mean failure.
It means your business model (and your product) has to be robust enough to work even with bad managers, poor finances etc etc. and most companies do manage this for a goodly while.
Companies with good managers, excellent standards in all disciplines are almost as rare as hens teeth, otherwise, they'd clean up (and they do exists time to time).
JMW
Irrespective of any individual's own capability, collectively this was a total failure. I have seen it fail before even without this formal organisation. But don't get me wrong, I have seen some pretty disastrous failures when other disciplines gain an ascendancy. So it isn't simply that engineers aren't suited to dominate, as a class, though there are good examples of engineers who have created and managed top notch companies, these are often the exceptions rather than the rule.
Ditto inventors. They can't let go. "This is my design and this is how I want to have it made." I have personally lost time and money trying to work with some of these types. No matter how much you tell them that this is how their idea should be packaged and this is where the money is, they can't accept it. It's their baby.
And of course, we all know the dangers of letting the bean counters run the show.
But sticking with engineers, amongst whom there were no star performers and where there was no understanding of all the other necessary skills and abilities to produce a good product:
Example 1:
A water meter manufacturer and been around for 200years. A leading supplier.
In 1963 they produced a new water meter, and engineering had a field day.
The resultant design was based on a mix of existing manufacturing methods and some new but included all sorts of novel features. All good features that in time were adopted - by other manufacturers.
The clients referred to it as a "Rolls Royce" of water meters. They bought the competing design. Cheaper, less filled with novelties and produced using innovative modern assembly methods which the design and manufacturing methods were developed to support.
Example 2:
A leading supplier of niche market high spec sensors.
Engineering rightly respected for that but when tasked with producing a more general use sensor, couldn't let go of the specification enough to deliver. Sure they designed it and produced it, but the sales of the niche market high end sensor still outsold all the supposedly low end sensors combined.
We can all find examples in any industry of the converse, of course, where engineers or whoever, sees an opportunity and can't get management on board.
This is when you find escapees from the original company setting up shop down the road and doing what they want very successfully.
All too often engineers want to make what they want to make and think it sales' job to sell it.
Sales keep selling what clients want to buy
Marketing is needed to bridge the gap.
It has to be a collaborative effort managed by someone who can manage, whatever their discipline.
The right product is the one the client will buy.
Sales will report wish lists from clients and try to sell stuff the company doesn't make because they think that once hey have an order, some one will deliver the goods. They do this because, sometimes, it works.
Someone has to decide what the market needs, can be manufactured and will make a profit.
Engineers can say what they can make.
They often don't have the ability to determine the difference between what the clients likes and what he will pay for.
All the different departments and skills have a role.
In the end it really shouldn't matter what the origins of the decision makers so long as they can make enough good decisions to outweigh the bad and keep the company afloat.
To allow any form of unbalance means the number of bad decisions often outstrips the ability of good decisions to compensate.
And good managers are always in short supply in all disciplines. In some other ares, it may be difficult to find good engineers, good sales people and so on.
But that is the real world and it doesn't necessarily mean failure.
It means your business model (and your product) has to be robust enough to work even with bad managers, poor finances etc etc. and most companies do manage this for a goodly while.
Companies with good managers, excellent standards in all disciplines are almost as rare as hens teeth, otherwise, they'd clean up (and they do exists time to time).
JMW
Interesting comments on engineers running the country, it appears the US has had more engineers as leaders than the UK and Australia.
I often think that we really should go towards competence based government, i.e. to get elected a party has to propose who is going to be in charge of what portfolio and what their qualifications are for the post.
Just a dream of mine, politicians that actually understand the things that they are in charge of!
I often think that we really should go towards competence based government, i.e. to get elected a party has to propose who is going to be in charge of what portfolio and what their qualifications are for the post.
Just a dream of mine, politicians that actually understand the things that they are in charge of!
moltenmetal
Chemical
What, you mean you want the people who write the laws to be lawyers?! They already are- look where THAT got us! Inherent conflict of interest if you ask me.
Today, I say fire the MBA's and let the engineers run the joint.
I have VOIP with Comcast. People have let me know they can't get through so they call my cell phone. I called Comcast and let them know. They said they'll investigate. What happens? I get a call from Comcast asking if the problem still exists and if it does, they'll turn it over to their next level of troubleshooting. OK, uh..... Did they do any troubleshooting? No but if I'm still having trouble, they'll send it to the next level of troubleshooting. I asked them to please do so because this has been ongoing for a couple of months and I received another complaint this week. And if someone calls and can't get through and doesn't call my cell phone, how am I to know the problem continues?
And, rather than call on my home line, they call my cell phone. The young lady was hardly understandable. We have so messed up good systems from the past it is not funny. This kind of stuff is a huge time waster for many people. You have to touch things, simple things, multiple times to get resolution. And why? So a company can save money but waste its customers time. It's one reason I have really scaled back on purchases.
I have VOIP with Comcast. People have let me know they can't get through so they call my cell phone. I called Comcast and let them know. They said they'll investigate. What happens? I get a call from Comcast asking if the problem still exists and if it does, they'll turn it over to their next level of troubleshooting. OK, uh..... Did they do any troubleshooting? No but if I'm still having trouble, they'll send it to the next level of troubleshooting. I asked them to please do so because this has been ongoing for a couple of months and I received another complaint this week. And if someone calls and can't get through and doesn't call my cell phone, how am I to know the problem continues?
And, rather than call on my home line, they call my cell phone. The young lady was hardly understandable. We have so messed up good systems from the past it is not funny. This kind of stuff is a huge time waster for many people. You have to touch things, simple things, multiple times to get resolution. And why? So a company can save money but waste its customers time. It's one reason I have really scaled back on purchases.
decorativeconcrete
Industrial
LaCajun,
Why comcast?
The popular choice appears to be Skype.
Like most things, the users of Skype get free internet calls to other Skype users but you can't communicate with other VOIP. (In the cell phone world Vodaphone at last allow me to use my "free" minutes to call any other cell phones, no matter what the provider which caught me by surprise, but then we do live in a confusopoly.)
I also have BT's softphone because it came with my internet service. I use it hardly at all because I really don't know anyone else in my circle who has it.
My brother in law had his VOIP from his provider in LA and junked it as soon as he downloaded Skype.
I can't think of any problems I have ever had with Skype.
The only concern I have with any of these services, whatever they are, is that sooner or later they will figure they have about as much of the market as they can get hold of and that its time to start milking the herd for money.
I was an early user of Plaxo until they made that choice, stripped out most of the key features from the freebie version and expect that everyone will be happy to buy the "Pro" version.
I do most of my international business calling via Skype to Skype but I was surprised to discover some companies don't allow it.
Go figure.
JMW
Why comcast?
The popular choice appears to be Skype.
Like most things, the users of Skype get free internet calls to other Skype users but you can't communicate with other VOIP. (In the cell phone world Vodaphone at last allow me to use my "free" minutes to call any other cell phones, no matter what the provider which caught me by surprise, but then we do live in a confusopoly.)
I also have BT's softphone because it came with my internet service. I use it hardly at all because I really don't know anyone else in my circle who has it.
My brother in law had his VOIP from his provider in LA and junked it as soon as he downloaded Skype.
I can't think of any problems I have ever had with Skype.
The only concern I have with any of these services, whatever they are, is that sooner or later they will figure they have about as much of the market as they can get hold of and that its time to start milking the herd for money.
I was an early user of Plaxo until they made that choice, stripped out most of the key features from the freebie version and expect that everyone will be happy to buy the "Pro" version.
I do most of my international business calling via Skype to Skype but I was surprised to discover some companies don't allow it.
Go figure.
JMW
controlsdude
Electrical
If sales was not selling vaporware, there would be no new products developed with new features (bugs)
If beancounters were the CEOs then the company would have no vision and die.
Just two thoughts.
If beancounters were the CEOs then the company would have no vision and die.
Just two thoughts.
JMW, it's the only broadband in my area. I also don't like paying a bunch of different companies. I may have to as Comcast hasn't called yet. I have a Skype account but it's not the same as a land line. I get poor cell coverage in my neighborhood even though it's a large one. A friend has Vonage and loves it.
Skype is free and it doesn't care whose broadband you have. Just download and invite your regular contacts to join.
Its PC to PC.
Of course, I'm assuming you have a certain bandwidth to play with each month.
JMW
Its PC to PC.
Of course, I'm assuming you have a certain bandwidth to play with each month.
JMW
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- News
- Locked
- Article
- Locked
- Question