Quick question

[WalkSoftly]

Greetings all, I need some help/advice...

One of our resident "engineers" poked the bear in a meeting recently by trying to get out of modifying some drawings. Quite simply, I asked for metric dimensions as the primary with standard dimensions as an alternate, and in parentheses on the drawings. This ruffled his arrogant holier-than-thou feathers because basically he doesn't understand metrics and it confuses his world, if you can imagine. Anyway, he stated that he would not modify the drawings from standard as primary, with metrics as the alternate because...wait for it...yes, he said this - "country of origin law (we are in the USA) dictates that it be standard"...I know this is absolute BS but I want to call him out at the next meeting. Is there such a standard or protocol ?

Thanks...MG

 

[3DDave]

It's common sense that when all the info is already on the drawing to leave the drawings as-is.

When you say 'some drawings' are you saying two drawings and that's it or starting a project that will eventually tear up twenty-thousand drawings to change the order of information that is already there?

This sounds like a great chance for you to get to know how to use the company CAD system by doing this job yourself in your evening and weekend time, which is where the engineer is probably being asked to do so.

Personal preference, but I think alternate dimensions are terrible. They take up extra room, result in people fighting over them, and increase the workload. Because of rounding issues for conversion, it causes there to be two different acceptable limits for tolerances, with one of them being more restrictive than desired.

 

[WalkSoftly]

Thanks 3dDave...I probably should have added more but, it's only two drawings and he put the standard dimensions on there before any approval. There are no weekends and late nights for this guy so it's not a lot that I'm asking for. I agree that tolerances are an issue for us. We do not do that very well in cases where standard and metric are used but because we are international, we often have to have both. so again, is there a standard or protocol, other than common sense ?

 

[3DDave]

Neither position has universal support. It's judgment best based on supply chain needs.

It is just as possible this was an opinion beaten into him by someone else as that he made it up. I've heard the goofiest explanations for 'has to be like this' over time.

Personal favorite - Can't spot weld galvanized material because it poisons people. So I figure, poisons people must be pretty bad; I Google "OSHA weld galvanized." The OSHA recommendation? If a lot of material with zinc coating is being welded, use a fan to prevent temporary, non-life-threatening, flu-like symptoms. Pretty far from 'poisons people.' There are also companies that sell zinc bar expressly for torch melting to replace the zinc coating that is burned off by welding. But someone sometime got told this was bad for you and the message got distorted.

If you need to control dual dimensioning, you probably need to add this to the company drawing style standard.

 

[looslib]

There is no standard that says "thou shall use xxxxxx dimensioning in yyy country".
In the USA, companies have their choice as to which dimensioning scheme to use as their primary one, metric or english units. Use of secondary dimensions is also left to the company if they want to use them or not.

I have worked for companies in the USA that have used both methods. Only one had secondary units on the drawings and these were done in a chart on the side of drawing and always marked as reference. This company used metric dimensions as their primary units. The original CAD system they used had a custom written program that would grab all of the dimension values from all sheets, but them in an array, remove duplicates, format the chart with metric and english values and place it on the drawing. When we switched to another CAD system we could not duplicate the programming and dropped it from all drawings.


"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

 

[WalkSoftly]

You're probably right on the opinion thing...past experience is that metric just gets this guy all kinds of discombobulated. I can understand that to a point...it's the self-righteousness in his "country-of-origin statement that gets under my skin.

 

[dgallup]

I have been making metric drawings in the USA for 30 years. I avoid dual dimensioning like the plague. Changing primary units should also be avoided as you are going to introduce all kinds of rounding errors.

On December 31, 2012, a petition was created on the White House's petitioning system, petitioning the White House to "Make the Metric system the standard in the United States, instead of the Imperial system." On January 10, 2013, this petition garnered over 25,000 signatures - exceeding the threshold needed to require the Obama Administration to officially respond to the petition. Patrick D. Gallagher, director of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, provided the official response stating that customary units were defined in the metric system, thus making the nation "bilingual" in terms of measurement systems. Gallagher also said that using the metric system was a choice to be made by individuals.

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

 

[WalkSoftly]

Thanks everyone...quite helpful. Going forward, I will stick to metric first and avoid alternates where possible. We do have problems with rounding, conversions, decimal places and tolerances, especially where this one guy is concerned. He seems to be the root cause. Alas...

 

[juergenwt]

As per the US Government the metric system is the preferred system. Al imperial measurements are based on metric standards.
If your company designs in metric (hard metric) because you operate internationally, than that is what you specify for your print. Period!
No dual dim's.
If your design is in imperial than your print should be imperial (hard imperial). No dual dim's.
The reason is that if you show converted hard metric in imperial for somebody to manufacture in the US, you are asking for big trouble. Most US vendors will tell you they will not have a problem with the converted dim's. You will get burned.
The same is true if you use hard imperial converted to metric. Sending that print anywhere in the world and you are asking for nothing but trouble.
Just make absolutely sure you have an engineer and draftsman who fully understands the metric system. Not just x 25.4!

 

[Tunalover]

WalkSoftly-
Why are you jumping through hoops for this guy? Are you not empowered to make the drawing as you see fit?


Tunalover

 

[TheTick]

Feel free to tell your team on my behalf that I say that your coworker is full of $#!+. Tick has spoken.

 

[ctopher]

"country of origin law (we are in the USA) dictates that it be standard".
I suppose he believes that English is the US "legal" language too?

Chris, CSWA
SolidWorks 14
SolidWorks Legion

 

[CheckerHater]

"country of origin law (we are in the USA) dictates that it be standard"

Metric system is made into "country law" by so-called Metric Act of 1866.

The Act was originally introduced as H.R. 596 in the 39th Congress. The House passed it on 17 May 1866; the Senate passed it on July 27, 1866; and it was presented to President Andrew Johnson and signed the next day. End of story.

 

[WalkSoftly]

Bottom line here is that the guy's just being a dick...I know how to handle it going forward...thanks for the input everyone...