Question about work environment 7

[faromic80]

I have an awkward situation at my job. I worked on a project a couple months ago. I had some problems with it, meaning it took me longer than it should have and we were at budget. There was also another project where I was working with another engineer and we were close to budget (for reasons I won't go into but was not entirely my fault). Anyways, we had a meeting with me another engineer, the company principal, and the head office engineer. The head office engineer said in the meeting that he had "lost patience with me" and that's why he's not working with me anymore. Since then (actually, since before that) he has not spoken to me. It's awkward, especially since we have a small open office with 6 engineers. There may have been some work problems, but I don't think it's right for him to act like that. I feel weird. when new projects come in, he asks others what they are working on and if they can take on the new project, except for me. He hasn't asked me, so I'm currently working with another engineer; helping him on his projects. I'm uncomfortable there, and am debating whether or not to send him an email asking him to meet after work to speak about our situation.
Does anyone have any comments on this situation.
Thanks

 

[mechengdude]

Wow, tough situation there. If I understand you correctly the head engineer for whom you work under is not speaking to you. If thats true, it's completely unacceptable behavior. I would do two things in this order:
1. Update my resume and start job hunting immediately
2. Speak to the guys supervisor and make him aware of the situation and pray he does not condone the behavior

 

[vc66]

First, the way he is acting is completely unprofessional. I don't have to like the people that I work with (as a matter of fact I don't like a lot of them). However, a work environment requires cordiality, and as an engineer, one should hold him/herself in a professional manner.

I think the grievances need to be aired, and worked out. You should be the bigger person, and say that you don't want the work relationship to continue like this. Meet with him, and try to work things out.

Failing that... If this person can make you feel that bad at work, then you shouldn't work there anymore.

V

 

[csd72]

Focus on working hard for your current engineer to ensure that you meet budget. Dont let these things distract you from doing your job well.

Leave thoughts of moving until after hours.

Your manager is being immature about this, maybe he realises that he underquoted on those projects.

 

[COEngineeer]

I would just quit and find a different job. I wouldnt want to be in that environment. The thing is he is the head engineer and his position is higher than you. I think it is a losing battle and you will never be labeled "good" engineer. If he was just another engineer like you, then that is a different story.

Never, but never question engineer's judgement

 

[TenPenny]

I would say that you have reached that magical point where it is time to move on. When the head engineer says that he has 'lost patience with you', to me that indicates that there have been several areas where you have not, for whatever reason, measured up to whatever it is that he expects. Who knows why? He said that in a meeting with the company principal there, so what on earth is anyone going to do about it?

Focus on doing your work well, properly, and timely, and look for another position elsewhere. But do not badmouth anybody, because the world is a small place.

Life is too short to work in an environment like that.

 

[cksh]

I agree what others have said that the engineer is unprofessional. I was in a similar situation once. An engineer I worked for ignored me because he was mad at me about some project. I would definitely leave if it can't be handled with a one-on-one. Our guys here always get on each others nerves but by the next minute are buddy buddy again.

 

[faromic80]

that's my next step. I'm going to try and talk to him via email. I'm going to send an email telling how I feel politely. I was leaning toward just leaving, and not dealing with it. I don't know, I just don't think it's a very good environment.

 

[csd72]

faromic80,

If this does work out then dont get mad just get even. Make sure you maintain the demeanor of a consumate professional until the moment that you hand in your notice.

 

[ctopher]

I worked with engineers like that before. Once, I asked his manager and mine into a meeting and asked him to come in and talk. I put everything out onto the table, off the record. Since then, he had more respect for me (the managers did also). Try to work it out verbally with him (with witnesses) first. If it doesn't work, one of you will transfer or quit.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 2.0
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)

 

[HgTX]

I agree that talking would be better than email.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[melone]

What can you do to improve your performance?

 

[macmet]

If you really want to fix this situation as oppose to just leave, I would talk to him in person with his boss present. I would schedule a meeting with the head engineer, the principal and yourself. The principal wants the company to be successful and having an engineer working for him that is ignored by his boss cannot possibly help the company succeed. He will want this problem resolved as well.

If you need to use email to schedule the meeting make sure the principal is CC'd on everything. Keep the email short. The email is not where the problem will be fixed but in the discussions that follow.

 

[jmw]

E-mail?
Meet the guy by the coffee machine or go to his cubicle.
E-mail is like trying to keep away from physical contact. It suggests you are nervous of him.
Communication is always best face to face and verbal and don't forget it is also very visual.
But, by going face to face you also put him at a disadvantage. You are the one making the first move and he must react to that. He, having said his piece may actually mean it and is waiting for you to go or he had just been reamed out and was lashing out. Maybe on reflection he recognises he has been unfair but he doesn't have an exit; a face saving way out and, as senior, he may feel that he would lose some authority approaching you.
You're going to him openly and calmly may be all you need to do.
Think about the various attitudes that could be assumed and feel for the best.
You could be going to him upset, aggressive and ready to slug it out verbally. You could be going to him looking for him to use his management and mentoring skills.

Appologetic? deferential? what will put him at ease or at a disadvantage?

Don't ask what the problem is, he will bluster. Tell him yo've been thinking and would appreciate if he could show you he thinks you went wrong and perhaps he wouldn't mind showing you how to do it better. Play to his ego.
Don't spend to much time at it unless you start to get some positive results.
If you are not satisfied with his response, say so and say why. Say that he is in charge and you expect him to provide you with a professional evaluation and assistance to perform better.

If you don't get satisfaction then advise him that you feel you must take the issue further and will get some advice on your next steps. This should make him concerned as to what those steps are.

Go to HR, but do so initially in an "off the record" mode asking them for advice on how to handle the matter explaining that you feel he is upset but has refused to explain nor given any better management of you as you would have expected if he is unhappy with your work. Be sure to tell them what steps you have taken.

Try not to make this your problem but try to make it appear to be his problem in that he has reacted against you and is not acting as you would expect a manger to act toward a subordinate.
HR ought to appreciate the of the record approach and you will probably get a sympathetic hearing if you are simply seeking help and advice and if you do not appear to be critical of him. Plenty of time for that later.
If it doesn't improve the situation then you can consider going on the record which will involve, and should in any case, keeping a note book/diary.

But please, not an email. The personal touch.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[KENAT]

Start looking for another job. You may be able to recover this one but frankly the odds are against you.

To try and be proactive in the current job I'd probably try and speak face to face rather than email as others have said. Email can be great for leaving a virtual paper trail to cover your proverbial, however in this situation I don't think it should be your first choice.

Ask him what you can do to improve yourself/regain his confidence however you word it, more or less as JMW put above. Make sure and get specifics if it's to be of any help to either of you.



KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[faromic80]

I did send out some resumes, but the market is tough.

I did speak face to face Friday after work. I got the feeling that he is not a big fan of me, but did say that it is his responsibility to help me in the office environment. He said,"I don't have to like you out of here, but here, I'm here for you." I did ask him what I can do to improve he gave me a little feedback. He told me the office was for thick skinned people and that I was told that on the interview, which I was. I'm going to try and push through it and see what happens. Thanks all

 

[monkeydog]

Given that you were told the office is for "thick skinned" people at the interview, means he has no intention on changing his behavior.
I had a boss like that, after a mass exodus began, and during the exit interview with HR, one of the guys said the reason he was leaving was because of the boss.
His bosses had a heart to heart, and phone call with the guy that left.
The boss changed his behavior, but it is hard for him not to go back to his old ways, when things get tense, he reverts.
That was a big company, with a lot of check and balances.

 

[jmw]

"Thick skinned" means he expects to be aggressive and get away with it. He probably sees engineering as some sort of wild west pioneering environment but in reality it is his lack of people skills or man management skills that is the problem and rather than admit it he presents it as a problem for other people not having thick skinned or having sufficient bottle.

Be interesting to see if he is himself thick skinned....but wait till you have alternative employment lined up before you try it.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[faromic80]

As I said earlier, I spoke to him face to face after work. He said he was here for me and that he had no problem with me. He had a problem with that job and said he just didn't want to work with me for the time being. I've always felt since I got there like an outsider. There are only 5 enginners there, and they've all been there over 4 years, and two since the company opened 10 years ago. I feel like he favors the others and puts more effort into answering their questions than he does answering my questions. His answers are longer for others. I don't really know what to take from it, but I am working with him on a project now so we'll see how it goes. Hopefully, he will come around sooner or later.

 

[jmw]

He said he was here for me and that he had no problem with me. He had a problem with that job and said he just didn't want to work with me for the time being.

This is a contradiction.
He has not answered you properly. If he has no problem with you, why does he not want to work with you ... for the time being?
How is he there for you?
At the very least you should expect him to be more involved with your work, not less. He should be taking a more hands on approach which would involve him making an effort to provide you with closer supervision so that he can help you identify your problems and remedy them.

A log book/diary is appropriate to record incidents and comments. Often, when a situation matures into a confrontation in front of management or HR, your recollection of isolated incidents and subjective comments can seem trivial, especially in the face of an assured and strong denial by someone who will undoubtedly then claim to be fair and who will then probably accuse you of having "personal problems" or problems interacting with people etc.

It also occurs to wonder if this is an isolated incident. You could try talking to some of your fellow workers, especially those who have been there for some length of time to ask what they think about his attitude to you and also to ask what they think went wrong with the previous projects that he has got in such a state about it. If you can't get serious engineering related advice from him, try for it from your colleagues.

Hopefully, he will come around sooner or later.]/quote]
You say you were at budget on one and close to budget on another. Budget over-runs are not unusual and thus one has to question if perhaps the problem is that before the projects completed he had been making claims to senior management that these would be brought in "well under-budget". Also not to be over-looked is that he made his comments, not in private to you but in a meeting where he has done the maximum damage to you.
This is not, in my opinion, professional. Indeed, it smels to me like "scape-goating". He isn't going to come round.

The question is, what is your work environment like now? How much is this affecting you?
How is it likely to affect your career prospects?
At some point you may need to approach HR to get the work situation resolved. You may need to take some legal advice.
I suggest that you take some time and write up a detailed account of the incident at the meeting and of the two projects. You may also try and get some comment from others.

What you have to face is the prospect that the work environment may bring with it some health issues as you are now under sustained stress and you also have to be careful about how the worry affects home life. Also, you need to ask what is this doing to your career prospects both within this company and when you try to move on.
Then too, you only know what he has said to you in the meeting, you do not know what he has said to the management nor what is now in your personnel file.

Don't take this too lightly, don't simply assume that it is a case of working extra hard to prove yourself, it may be that this is a wasted effort if he is being unfair. If you think he was unfair then it isn't your engineering and being a better engineer isn't going to help.

Sanity check: talk with your co-workers in a relaxed off-site environment, talk to them individually and see from the first discussion if you can establish what is gong on.

Some times "bullies" get away with it because they can. They may often pick on new employees because they are less sure of themselves and don't know what to expect.

However, if you discover the criticisms valid, if your co-workers will tell you you messed up, then learn from it. Still, if that is the case then it is for your "mentor" to help you bring your standards up to expectation. Ultimately that is for the head engineer, it is his team and he is answerable for its quality and performance.

It may be that there have been a succession of people who have joined, been scape-goated and left with a stain on their reputation. If so, and if it gets nasty, you might need to talk with some of them. You were employed as a replacement? or as part of expansion? i.e. did you replace someone and why did they go (always a question during interviews).

In any event, get that CV out there and look for a new job. You may need a refuge...



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com