Question about metric 6

[murdof]

Hi guys,

we are a company (ACE-Hellas SA) that has a software for static and dynamic analysis plus design of structures.

The question though is the following:

Currently we are looking for partners to promote our software all over the world.
Our software supports only metric and not imperial units.
I see that in US there are a lot of talks about adopting officially the metric system.
For us to support imperial units is not so easy - as we have to recreate all forms and calculations, so it will take a lot of time.

Do engineers in US work with metric or imperial units for the static and dynamic analysis?

We want to see if we should try to promote the software in the US as well.

Thanks!

 

[IRstuff]

The US has been converting to the SI system for the past 30 yrs. However, given that the SI system is, essentially, a system derived from original French standards, it's unlikely to garner much support from those that consider the French to be a socialist country and see SI units as a part of the new world order conspiracy.

TTFN
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[Archie264]

IRstuff,

I don't think that's the reason behind the resistance to change. Rather, I think, it's that in the US systems are in place as racookpe1978 noted.

I remember years ago I mentioned to my boss that a particular project was required to be designed in metric. His response was, "They can do that if they want but there is no one in town who would be able to build it."

That's assuming real metric design, of course. Some that I've seen have been laughable, i.e., "place 2.54 cm of non-shrink grout under base plate..."

 

[dik]

BA... about 90% of the work I do is still Imperial... in Canada, still... appears only Alberta has taken SI seriously...

Dik

 

[IRstuff]

Certainly, the inertia is a big issue, but it's an issue because the conversion is fully voluntary. Until seat belts became mandatory, not much was ever done. Likewise, until SI is mandatory, nothing much will come of it; there is no political support for it, particularly from the right.

TTFN
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[Archie264]

Good. I don't like being told what to do.

 

[hawkaz]

IRStuff
Its not just the right- its all politicians. A congressman (Democrat by the way) once told me that the reason we still have daylight savings time is because there are no votes to be gained by eliminating it. No politician is willing to spend political capital on something that won't benefit them in any way. Same goes for Metric conversion.

 

[JAE]

In the building arena the reason SI didn't catch on was that there was so much physical infrastructure involved in construction that converting to "hard" metric was just economically a disaster. One example was that every steel mill and rebar mill facility in the country would have to totally re-tool to begin producing SI bars.

For the early 1990's the US Federal government started mandating that the US convert...only to be pushed back by most every industry in the construction world. We were already starting to do bridge in SI for the state DOT's but they then reversed course. Nothing to do with left or right.

 

[bookowski]

Murdof,

To get back to your original question - you would absolutely need to handle imperial units to have success in the US market. I would also say that you shouldn't either force feet or inches, but have both options (along with lbs, kips etc.) if you are going to compete with the other software out there. Download some trial versions of the popular software used in the US (Etabs, Ram, Midas, Risa etc.) to see what they offer - all of them allow you to switch easily between units at any time.

 

[bkal]

Not directly related to the above ...

Even in Europe, we are not consistent in using the SI system. I have seen stresses expressed in (metric) tonne / cm squared.

 

[TomDOT]

JAE - I have on my desk a 1995 DOT fully metric specbook. I think it was used for a matter of months before reverting to Imperial.

 

[drawoh]

murdof,

I am in Canada. I just today walked up to the counter of a fastener and tool store and asked for a 90[°][ ]countersink. They stared at me blankly and told me that countersinks are[ ]82[°].

In the USA and Canada, you need to cope with English units.

--
JHG

 

[murdof]

Thanks for your replies all,

there is still a lot more to do for Europe as I mentioned, so I just wanted to see if US would be a market we could target soonish.

We already discussed the feedback you guys gave and we have decided to focus in Europe/South Africa/Australia for now.

I would love though to get some feedback from guys in Europe about our software and what they think about it.
We have free version available (

http://www.scadapro.eu),

plus manuals and we are making more youtube videos with examples.

 

[Archie264]

>>>I just today walked up to the counter of a fastener and tool store and asked for a 90° countersink. They stared at me blankly and told me that countersinks are 82°. <<<

Metric affects angles?

 

[jayrod12]

Ya Archie, didn't you hear what they're teaching kids in math these days... get with the times!

 

[IRstuff]

"They stared at me blankly and told me that countersinks are 82°"

If that had been in one particular state, that could have been due to the legal definition of pi = 3.0 ;-)

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[Archie264]

All they need to do now is make sure reality is aware of these latest developments.

 

[dik]

After a bunch of beer after work at the office in Edmonton about 25 years ago, was with a group. I was surprised that SI had taken such a foothold. I called AGT (Alberta Telephones) and asked when they were converting the phone system to metric... and the poor little lady didn't know... so, I asked her to find out and call me back... after about 15 minutes or so, I got a call back and she stated, "At the present time, AGT has no intentions of converting the phone system to metric." I thanked her for her reply...

Dik

 

[BAretired]

@dik,

I have noticed that a few engineers in BC are still using Imperial, but I thought that most of Canada had converted to metric. Our codes are written in metric, so I don't know why people are so slow to comply.

In Alberta, all government projects must be detailed in metric. Many of the steel fabricators are detailing strictly in metric, even in projects in which the EOR details in Imperial. This is not a very good situation and has led to errors in the past.

Unfortunately, the lumber industry has not generally converted to metric. We are still using plywood and OSB which are 48"x96" which means that our studs and joists are spaced at 16" or 24" (406mm or 610mm on government projects which is a total pain in the butt). We can specify 1200 x 2400 plywood, but we pay extra for it because they take a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood and cut it down to size which means we pay for the cutting and end up with less material. It is not likely to change any time soon because the lion's share of the market is in the USA.

BA

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Personally I would welcome a project in metric. While it would be hard to get a "feel" for the units I know about how much force a newton is, about how long a meter is, and our soda are in liters so I have no problem there.

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

 

[BAretired]

Hokie66, you've piqued my interest. What's wrong with centimetres, specifically? Just curious.

Our weatherman uses centimetres to describe rainfall or snowfall. For that purpose, they are fine but they do not mix readily with metric units in the SI system which Canada has adopted. For example, 1 kiloNewton per meter is the same as 1 Newton per millimetre (1 kN/m = 1 N/mm). But 1 kN/m = 10 N/cm and there is a chance of making an order of magnitude error.

Or another example, 1 MPa (1 MegaPascal) is 1 MegaNewton per square metre which is the same as 1 Newton per square millimetre. That is, 1 MPa = 1 MN/m² = 1 N/mm².

Incorporating decimetres or centimetres is a recipe for disaster when carrying out engineering calculations. I came across one Mexican contractor who reported concrete strengths in kilograms per square centimetre (kg/cm²). That was a total pain to convert to usable units.

So I agree with hokie on this point. I would not want anything to do with a program which used centimetres unless it offered a conversion into more acceptable units.

BA