PVC or PE pipe for water distribution inside a container 1

[simplemath2]

I would like your support for the following problem:

I tried to decide the plastic piping material for inside container water distribution.
Pipe size : 18in to 30in
Medium: water for Cooling /Firefighting
Temperature: 40 -55 F
Pipe with radial slots (every 5in) to evenly distribute water to inside container.

I went through this forum while most material used is PE pipe. Can I use PVC pipe for the above application? Apparently, PVC features cheaper material and easier installation (solvent cementing vs heat fusion). Several concerns regarding PVC are not problems here: a) No UV radiation since all piping in the container and most of time is under the water , b) I would think it non-pressure contain design since pipe has slots in. c) temperature is in the range d) I am not sure water hammer. Nevertheless, that can be controlled.

One thing in my concern is the pipe size. Is solvent cementing working well for large PVC pipe as 30in inside water ? The pipe is not pressure containing but I cannot afford pipe big leak or rupture at joint. In that case, will slip from overhead support and ruin the performance.

BTW, There is some big cost stuff associated with HDPE. Since filed fusion is not recommended, we have to furnish flanged adaptors which need to non-corrosive. I could not think of anything other than stainless steel flanges.

Any comment appreciated. Thanks.

 

[jgailla]

I don't do building work, but solvent cement is not appropriate for large water lines.
I wouldn't use solvent cement on anything over 3" in diameter. Solvent cement force is dependent on the perimeter of the pipe, while the force in a pipe is dependent on the area. The perimeter to area ratio gets very small very quickly.
For larger, underground PVC pipes, gasketed joints are used.
However, these are dependent on the surrounding soil to provide a frictional force to keep the joints together.
There are mechanical joint restraints and lockable gaskets which you may want to look into if you use PVC. Try googling Eagle Loc. I've never used them but they claim to be very strong.

 

[cvg]

depending on the flow rate and pumping system your pipe will experience significant pressures - it will not be a "non-pressure design" Therefore, I would not recommend ASTM F679 which is what I assume you are thinking of using. You should probably be using AWWA C905

http://www.pwpipe.com/literature/f/mkt-f-780.pdf

 

[bimr]

Not sure exactly what you are doing, but it sounds like you are making some sort of pump skid inside of a container.

PVC and PE pipe are not suitable for such an application, especially with the larger pipe sizes. The PVC is not strong enough (temperature limited) and the PE can not be constructed straight enough.

You would probably be better off with an FRP product from AO Smith or Bondstrand.

Stainless steel can also be used, but it would be more expensive. You might investigate the ductile iron Victaulic system.

 

[simplemath2]

My application is not underground. The 30" pipe will hanger from the container roof using pipe hangers.The container is full of water and pipe with slot to provide a smooth distributed water flow.for this reason, if carefully controlled , water hammer or pressure rise will not be a problem.

jgailla: What you said is exactly the information I am looking for. Can you advise more information on solvent cement related to size ? Website or vendor to contact will be highly appreciated.

cvg : Thanks. Right now I am trying to decide between PVC and PE regarding the connection method. I did not look into which PVC to use.

bimr: Good points. I should also look into FRP. Even pipe could be plastic, the support material may either FRP or SS to avoid corrosion.

Thanks very much for all your valuable support. This is a great forum and my honor to meet so many wonderful people.

 

[jgailla]

simplemath,
I don't have any particular information on solvent cement related to size.
None of the utilities I have worked with allow it, so I haven't looked into it.
Try PPFA, Plastic Pipe and Fitting Association, for more information.

 

[bimr]

Your answer on PVC pipe construction is something that you will find in a piping design guide, not from a vendor. Here is a link to a piping guide from the design standards of an facility owner:

http://engstandards.lanl.gov/esm/pressure_safety/process_piping_guide_R2.pdf

As you will see on page 70, solvent welding for PVC pipe is limited to 8" maximum size of PVC pipe. I would not recommend that fabrication method for water piping. Notice also that Schedule 80 PVC pipe is limited to 100 Deg F and 150 psig pressure.

 

[s0eebuch]

I agree that C905 with some kind of restrained joint is probably what you should consider.

Be careful with your slots, though, they may weaken the pipe if too much area is removed.

With FRP, you must design your supports carefully. That's pretty much all the experience I have with that!

I don't like HDPE/PE as it tends to change shape with environmental changes. PVC is more stable.

If you go with C905, go to Uni-Bell and be sure to determine your required DR carefully as it appears you will be using the pipe in a unique application.

http://www.uni-bell.org/literature.php

I also recommend the ultra-thick Piping Handbook by Mohinder L. Nayyar (latest edition) and the Uni-Bell Handbook of PVC Pipe if you choose to go that route.

good luck.