propane/nitrous mix 3

[hartparr2844]

Is it possible to mix and nitrous in the same bottle?
If so can you run on vapor or liquid?

 

[kenvlach]

Sure, make a bunch.
Label the bottles 'Iraq 2001' in Arabic, notify the White House & you will be rewarded with at least the Presidential Medal of Freedom & maybe a small oil company.

No, not a good idea, quite dangerous in fact.

 

[stephenw22]

Propane is a hydrocarbon and Nitrous Oxide is an oxidant. You definitely don't want to store your fuel and oxygen in the same bottle, under pressure. Things will go boom.

Even static generated from the product sloshing around inside the bottle could ignite it, if the bottle wasn't completely grounded.

 

[turbocohen]

As previously stated, do not mix oxygen with hydrocarbon under pressure. Weapons that use air/fuel mix them after release from the plane. Premixing virtually guaranties a deadly mishap.

 

[marcdeluca]

Aside from the safety issues, how would you make it work? The propane would stay liquified because of the pressure from the nitrous, so you would have to take the lp off the bottom. Wouldn't you also have nitrous liquid come off the bottom? How would you separate the two so that you could control the mixture?

 

[kenvlach]

Found the study below: Note that they use carbon dioxide to dilute for safety, and used a catalyst to set off the reaction. So, a scratch or burr inside the tank, regulator, tubing, fittings or a little bit of heat could set off a pure mixture.

Reactivity investigation of mixtures of propane and nitrous oxide by Ronald J. Willey, Shangwei Hu & John M. Moses, Process Safety Progress, Volume 24, Issue 4, Pages 303-309 (2005).

"Supercritical and vapor-phase reactions of oxidizers and fuels under pressure are of commercial interest. Because mixtures of propane and nitrous oxide have the potential to be explosive, a model mixture was studied with the intent of defining safe operating boundaries. This work investigated the nitrous oxide/propane oxidant/fuel system, diluted with the inert solvent carbon dioxide, and a catalyst as an accelerant, to determine the safe operating regions for the oxidation reaction. Using an ARC® calorimeter for the evaluations, variables included initial system density, catalyst, and mixture compositions. Density of the system ranged from 0.05 to 0.62 g/cm3. A number of catalysts were investigated with 10% Pd on carbon being the most active. Strongest reactivity was observed when the mixture was stoichiometric to the complete combustion products of nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and water. Three distinct regions of reactivity were observed: mild reactivity (starting at the sensitivity of the ARC of dT/dt = 0.02 to about 0.1° C/min); strong exothermic reaction (dT/dt 1° C/min); and flammable and/or explosive (a distinct and substantial jump in dP/dt in <1 s). As a result, a boundary has been proposed for safe mixtures of nitrous oxide, propane, and carbon dioxide, and a basis for determining safe operating compositions for other systems. The computed adiabatic reaction temperature was used to correlate the experimental results to establish the boundary for safe operation."

The above abstract & info on purchasing the entire article:

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/112101320/ABSTRACT

I expect significant mutual solubility between the propane & nitrous oxide. Probably lots of hydrogen bonding (between H of propane & O on nitrous oxide). Found some phase diagram leads, but all were coprighted/pay-to-view stuff.

Be careful out there,
Ken

 

[rdd48856]

It's impossible for hydrogen atoms in hydrocarbons to establish hydrogen bonds. Also nitrous oxide is almost apolar. In fact it is this that makes possible its solubility in CO2.

I don't understand what is the advantage of using this kind of mixtures on automotive fuels.