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Professionalism 5
- Thread starter APH
- Start date
Be a team player. Don't make waves. Play along and Brown-nose a little bit. Do all this despite any moral objections you may have. Dissent even on moral grounds is generally not appreciated, especially if it can cause a "movement" within the company. "Professional" can mean "mature", but it also can stink of "impersonal" and "impartial," which can rob you of your engineering or business opinion, or even some of the milder ethics, if it opposes that of superiors. The trick is to remain "professional" until such major ethical dillemmas arise.
Don't let minor personal frustrations with the company or managers influence the quality of your work, the respectfulness of your communication, or your general demeanor around the water cooler. And if you have personal objections you need to report... communicate them PRIVATELY to people who matter and you know you can trust. That's my best advice.
ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee
Don't let minor personal frustrations with the company or managers influence the quality of your work, the respectfulness of your communication, or your general demeanor around the water cooler. And if you have personal objections you need to report... communicate them PRIVATELY to people who matter and you know you can trust. That's my best advice.
ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee
I agree with every word of aspearin1's second paragraph, but the first seems a little too conservative to me. I wouldn't last a month in a job where I had to be that way. (If you do consider making any waves, be very, very sure that the relevant people in power truly believe you're worth the trouble.)
Back to presentation...One thing to monitor in addition to business wardrobe, firm handshake, and general etiquette would be your oral and written communication skills. If you don't think you could describe yourself as highly articulate (not all engineers can), consider taking some classes in both public speaking and technical writing. Keep in mind, too, that you will need different attitudes and bearings in different situations. How you act (and dress) in the office may need to be different from how you will act if you have to go to a plant or jobsite.
Hg
Back to presentation...One thing to monitor in addition to business wardrobe, firm handshake, and general etiquette would be your oral and written communication skills. If you don't think you could describe yourself as highly articulate (not all engineers can), consider taking some classes in both public speaking and technical writing. Keep in mind, too, that you will need different attitudes and bearings in different situations. How you act (and dress) in the office may need to be different from how you will act if you have to go to a plant or jobsite.
Hg
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- #5
Communicate more with co-workers, via emails or other means. Also follow-up conversations with email summaries to ensure you are after the same goals.
Use the tools you have available to your advantage, such as Outlook Calendar to schedule meetings.
During working hours, work. Save the chit-chat and jokes for breaks and lunch.
Don't let your personal life interfere with your corporate life (to a reasonable degree).
Dress the part (as mentioned), leave the jeans and t-shirts at home.
Just some pointers. To me when I hear "be professional" I take it as co-workers are looking to me as a role model, and upper management is looking for me to set a good example. You can be professional without compromising your ethics, morals, back-stabing or brown-nosing.
"But what... is it good for?"
Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
Use the tools you have available to your advantage, such as Outlook Calendar to schedule meetings.
During working hours, work. Save the chit-chat and jokes for breaks and lunch.
Don't let your personal life interfere with your corporate life (to a reasonable degree).
Dress the part (as mentioned), leave the jeans and t-shirts at home.
Just some pointers. To me when I hear "be professional" I take it as co-workers are looking to me as a role model, and upper management is looking for me to set a good example. You can be professional without compromising your ethics, morals, back-stabing or brown-nosing.
"But what... is it good for?"
Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
profengmen
Mechanical
Find someone you identify with as a true professional, and always ask yourself what "he/she" would do in any situation. Be it in work habits, attitude, dress or design.
Remember attitude is 85% of your success.
Skill and education can be learned.
Start reading good self help books, always have a book to read everyday, for at least 20 minutes. Breaks are good for this. Authors such as Bob Pike, Zig Ziglar, Jim Henning, Nido Qubein, Harvey Mackay and Patricia Fripp are always good starts.
Smile.
Shut up.
Speak up.
Treat others as they would want you to treat them.
Remember, you are being watched...every day all day... don't do anything stupid.
Remember attitude is 85% of your success.
Skill and education can be learned.
Start reading good self help books, always have a book to read everyday, for at least 20 minutes. Breaks are good for this. Authors such as Bob Pike, Zig Ziglar, Jim Henning, Nido Qubein, Harvey Mackay and Patricia Fripp are always good starts.
Smile.
Shut up.
Speak up.
Treat others as they would want you to treat them.
Remember, you are being watched...every day all day... don't do anything stupid.
I suppose I shouldn't mention that I'm sitting here in jeans, T-shirt, and sandals, and not just because it's Friday.
Actually it's a pretty good illustration of starting out doing everything exactly right till you feel out the territory and find out where the lines are (or what you can usually get away with). When I finished school, I went out and bought a very large bag of Clothing That Is Not Jeans Or T-Shirts, and that's what I wore here for months. Now I drag that stuff out if I'm headed anywhere other than my isolated little office.
Hg
Actually it's a pretty good illustration of starting out doing everything exactly right till you feel out the territory and find out where the lines are (or what you can usually get away with). When I finished school, I went out and bought a very large bag of Clothing That Is Not Jeans Or T-Shirts, and that's what I wore here for months. Now I drag that stuff out if I'm headed anywhere other than my isolated little office.
Hg
Same here. Started with business casual, and quickly learned that the shop and labs depreciate the value of that clothing. I figure, if work made my clothes this way, then I can wear these clothes to work. Personally, it's my belief that if you don't have customer interaction, then be comfortable. But dressing "professionally" does help get you noticed and gets you recognized as a professional, who takes pride in his appearance and has an attention to detail. Those are key attributes you'll want to show up in your work. Some of my co-workers have invested in those Stain-Guard pants, and they've had some luck with that.
ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee
ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee
To add to asperin's second paragraph.
Don't let personal frustrations influence the content of your work. Any communication, written or verbal, should focus on the technical issues at hand and your engineering assessment of them, not your feelings about them.
Don't let personal frustrations influence the content of your work. Any communication, written or verbal, should focus on the technical issues at hand and your engineering assessment of them, not your feelings about them.
- Thread starter
- #10
All are very respectable responds. I've worked for 4 years in the previous company and there are many engineers (including my supervisor) who I think were very proffesional and I want to be that way. MintJulep brought out a very good point about professionalism in the design/engineering matter. Aspearin1 also brought a very good point, being able to pay attention to detail is one of my weaknesses, especially when I am under the gun. I understand that attitude is very important as being a good engineer. I think I don't have issue with clothing, since I'm pretty conservative my self.
By the way, I'm still listening...
Thanks
APH
By the way, I'm still listening...
Thanks
APH
Remember when trying to be professional not to forget to be an Engineer. Engineering has its own sets of rights and wrongs. NEVER let relationships become personal, always focus on the work to be done. Try to complete tasks on time but don't be less than thorough. Make sure that your managers know how your work is going and make sure that anyone working for you knows what they have to do.
Don't talk about your personal life right off the bat. It is nobody's business that you went to see your grandmother and your parents on Saturday, that you went to Church on Sunday morning, and that you played basketball with your niece for 2 hours friday night! However, once you make friends that you know are going to stick around even if you leave that company, then get friendly by all means. Also, don't be moody at work. The last thing you want people to do is talk about the moody you and your personal life!
Coka
Coka
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- #14
automatic2
Industrial
build your personal goals on solid moral standards, then lay them out in front of you and begin the journey. You can consider other's presence, but the journey is yours alone. Provide yourself with the tools you'll need (education, health, social)and continue to evaluate if you are ontrack by being employeed with the current firm, within the current field.
What does this have to do with professionalism?, depends on you desires, cause in the end it doesn't matter what they think, it's if you are satisfied with your own performance.
What does this have to do with professionalism?, depends on you desires, cause in the end it doesn't matter what they think, it's if you are satisfied with your own performance.
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- #15
I notice that no one (other than the OP, APH, with 'design task') has mentioned the other side of professionalism (besides appearances and other such characteristics). That is, doing the work correctly so that the building doesn't fall down, or the airplane crash, or whatever it is that you're working on.
It is at least a two-dimensional parameter ('sandals vs. shoes' along one side, and 'flaming wrecks vs. design perfection' along the other). I believe that the latter axis is slightly more important that the former axis (keyword 'slightly'). But both are important.
It is at least a two-dimensional parameter ('sandals vs. shoes' along one side, and 'flaming wrecks vs. design perfection' along the other). I believe that the latter axis is slightly more important that the former axis (keyword 'slightly'). But both are important.
Straw man, VE1BLL.
The difference is that on the latter "axis" there's no question whatsoever where one should operate, hence no point of discussing it. At least I hope to the divine aspect of your choice that no engineer is sitting there debating, "Hmmm...first day new job...should I do all the calcs? No one ever told me in school whether I should do that or just pull numbers out of my butt and make the widget look pretty..."
(Actually it's on the job where one learns the situations under which one actually *can* pull numbers out of one's butt, as said butt gains knowledge and experience, but that's probably another topic for another time.)
Hg
The difference is that on the latter "axis" there's no question whatsoever where one should operate, hence no point of discussing it. At least I hope to the divine aspect of your choice that no engineer is sitting there debating, "Hmmm...first day new job...should I do all the calcs? No one ever told me in school whether I should do that or just pull numbers out of my butt and make the widget look pretty..."
(Actually it's on the job where one learns the situations under which one actually *can* pull numbers out of one's butt, as said butt gains knowledge and experience, but that's probably another topic for another time.)
Hg
"...no point of discussing it."
Ah yes... They shouldn't exist, and yet they do! ('They' being those that occupy the 'Nice Shoes' but 'Incompetent' corner of the graph.) I'm sure that we've all met them.
My point is to remind us that the 'optics' of professionalism should be kept in perspective to what's even more important.
I just thought that it stood out like a sore thumb that no one had mentioned it since the top of the thread.
It's a point worthy of, at least, a mention (as a point of universal agreement, not argument).
Ah yes... They shouldn't exist, and yet they do! ('They' being those that occupy the 'Nice Shoes' but 'Incompetent' corner of the graph.) I'm sure that we've all met them.
My point is to remind us that the 'optics' of professionalism should be kept in perspective to what's even more important.
I just thought that it stood out like a sore thumb that no one had mentioned it since the top of the thread.
It's a point worthy of, at least, a mention (as a point of universal agreement, not argument).
To discuss it implies that it comes into question, that it's a matter of choice to be technically competent in what one does.
The "nice shoes but incompetent" contingent isn't that way because they thought, "Hmm, where should I be on the competence continuum? Competent? Incompetent? Gosh, incompetent sure sounds neato." No one chooses to be an idiot, and it's those who don't know they're idiots that are the most dangerous.
On the other hand, shoes and attitude are always a choice, and there are many possible acceptable ways to go. This is a thread about those matters that *are* up in the air, not those that go without saying.
Raising the point you raise won't give any useful information to anyone who isn't an incompetent idiot (and by raising it you imply that maybe someone here is one, which is part of why my hackles are up), and unfortunately it wouldn't set any incompetent idiots on the path to righteousness either because the biggest problem with incompetent idiots is that they don't know they're incompetent idiots, so they never recognize themselves in such words of warning. So you've accomplished nothing (other than keeping me moderately entertained on a slow morning).
It's kind of like if someone posted asking for driving directions from New York to LA and you give a lecture on proper use of turn signals. Irrelevant and condescending.
Hg
The "nice shoes but incompetent" contingent isn't that way because they thought, "Hmm, where should I be on the competence continuum? Competent? Incompetent? Gosh, incompetent sure sounds neato." No one chooses to be an idiot, and it's those who don't know they're idiots that are the most dangerous.
On the other hand, shoes and attitude are always a choice, and there are many possible acceptable ways to go. This is a thread about those matters that *are* up in the air, not those that go without saying.
Raising the point you raise won't give any useful information to anyone who isn't an incompetent idiot (and by raising it you imply that maybe someone here is one, which is part of why my hackles are up), and unfortunately it wouldn't set any incompetent idiots on the path to righteousness either because the biggest problem with incompetent idiots is that they don't know they're incompetent idiots, so they never recognize themselves in such words of warning. So you've accomplished nothing (other than keeping me moderately entertained on a slow morning).
It's kind of like if someone posted asking for driving directions from New York to LA and you give a lecture on proper use of turn signals. Irrelevant and condescending.
Hg
I apologise to you that my postings were apparently not sufficiently clear, to you. I'm wondering if I should bother to try again, but I will anyway...
Competence includes being careful (avoiding or catching the inevitable mistakes). Being careful IS a matter of free will. One example: consciously keeping your confidence level somewhere just below your competence level. Another example might to avoid jumping to conclusions about what you think you read (ahem...). It's an overall approach.
In other words, competence is partly an attitude and it is a critical part of 'professionalism'. Just because it is 'motherhood', I'm still entitled to mention it without anyone taking it personally.
Perhaps you could read my postings with a more open mind and try not look for insults. None were intended and (even after a careful review) I find that none exist.
Have a nice day.
Competence includes being careful (avoiding or catching the inevitable mistakes). Being careful IS a matter of free will. One example: consciously keeping your confidence level somewhere just below your competence level. Another example might to avoid jumping to conclusions about what you think you read (ahem...). It's an overall approach.
In other words, competence is partly an attitude and it is a critical part of 'professionalism'. Just because it is 'motherhood', I'm still entitled to mention it without anyone taking it personally.
Perhaps you could read my postings with a more open mind and try not look for insults. None were intended and (even after a careful review) I find that none exist.
Have a nice day.
profengmen
Mechanical
On the other hand, professionalism can be subjective. I see nothing professional at all about wearing T-shirts and sandals to work. I prefer business casual as the least appropriate, shirt and tie is much more professional.
I also see it unprofessional to call someone "straw man" for no reason. I saw VE1BLL posting a valid opinion; the offensive response seem to be subject to guilt?
But that's just me, and being prefessional allows others to be others. So APH let's have that as a lesson on how not to react.
I also see it unprofessional to call someone "straw man" for no reason. I saw VE1BLL posting a valid opinion; the offensive response seem to be subject to guilt?
But that's just me, and being prefessional allows others to be others. So APH let's have that as a lesson on how not to react.
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