Professional behavior in the company with technicians 19

[Znjmech]

Hi All

If one engineer works as a calculation eng (R&D) but he needs to collaborate with the technician of the laboratory ( who seems to be not so much friendly with graduated engineers , even hostile) whom shows too much curiosity at the engineer's activity, to know what he is doing and how (formulas, files , methods, etc) which is finally discovered that is for the caution, if the engineer goes away, the won't miss something.
how much should the engineer be reserved about his methods etc to have his job, and how could he have a good work relationship with this type of technician, that listens to the engineering office manager, but not to the engineers?

 

[MikeHalloran]

Hostile relationships are usually symmetrical.
One_engineer clearly doesn't respect the curious technician, and the technician doesn't trust One_engineer.

Said technician is understandably trying to understand what said engineer has been doing, possibly at the specific request of the engineering manager,
because said engineer will be leaving the company soon.
... the departure may be involuntary.

Said engineer and said technician are both employed by the company,
which expects them to be working toward a common goal.

If I were said manager, I would be looking to get rid of said engineer,
JUST BECAUSE said engineer will not, or perhaps cannot, explain his or her work
to said technician.

Some of the best engineers I know were formerly technicians, and became exceptional
engineers precisely because other engineers shared their expertise generously,
and mentored said future engineers.

Even technicians who will never become engineers, become much better technicians when engineers help them understand why they are doing what they are doing.

"Too much curiosity" suggests that One_engineer is insular and arrogant, and I suggest that he/she get their resume in shape; they will need it soon.






Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[3DDave]

I guess there is a continuous spectrum of conditions like this.

I know of some companies that always fire engineers just before their first complete year. They have a small core of long term employees and just churn the marketplace to burn engineers out and pick their brains with little to no interest in developing long term workers.

At the other end there are engineers who are such one-shots that they clamp down on everything in desperate fear they will be replaced with an Excel macro.

In my dealings with techs I have always wanted them to better understand exactly what they are working to accomplish. I haven't had many who went out of their way to ask ahead of time; most were actively discouraged by their managers because it stops them from their scheduled duties and they typically take their cues from QA to follow processes. Generally they appreciate the connection of their efforts to the theory behind it. It's been 50/50 that something I've said to the tech caused them to tell me that they understood why they'd had a problem or that something they said suggested a better alternative to what I had been expecting. (I once had to create a torque wrench from bar stock and a pull scale to reach a jam nut that was in a concave location where neither a crows foot or any other standard tool would fit. It was interesting to look at their faces as they realized what inch-pounds really meant as we tested the solution on the cal-lab torque tester. Another time a tech introduced me to self-drill/self-tappers, which was handy when the factory was pressured to ship before the tapped holes were added.)

I don't know about this case, but it sounds like a management failure in some area, which may overlap an engineer failure.

The tech should not be tasking an engineer. If there is a production problem that requires details like this then there should be an accounting for the distraction from the engineer's time. If the manager is trying to capture information, then they failed a long time ago to establish standards for doing so. All of it should have been captured at engineering reviews and explained to and reviewed by fellow engineers.

In any case, it seems like a hostile environment and there is no chance to change it. As always, update the resume and begin looking for a new place.

 

[Znjmech]

So you mean that if the technician stands behind the engineer all the time when he is writing a code for a problem that is not solved during the last 10 years in the company then the engineer is arrogant?

 

[IRstuff]

"If one engineer works as a calculation eng (R&D) but he needs to collaborate with the technician of the laboratory ( who seems to be not so much friendly with graduated engineers , even hostile) whom shows too much curiosity at the engineer's activity, to know what he is doing and how (formulas, files , methods, etc) which is finally discovered that is for the caution, if the engineer goes away, the won't miss something.
how much should the engineer be reserved about his methods etc to have his job, and how could he have a good work relationship with this type of technician, that listens to the engineering office manager, but not to the engineers"

Why do you ask? The "one engineer" appears to have been tasked to do a job, for which they should provide adequate documentation so that whoever is left behind can maintain the calculations, or software, or whatever. The technician and their lack of cooperation is irrelevant, because even that technician is not forever, so whoever takes their place still needs the documentation and calculations, presumably.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[MikeHalloran]

I can stare at a piece of code for days and never see a glaring error, that will be noticed in little time by anyone looking over my shoulder and trying to understand what is there, as opposed to what I think is there. ... probably sooner if I am also explaining to them how (I think) the software works. It's happened many times.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[lacajun]

Some techs are territorial just as some engineers are territorial. The tech may be trying to learn and only you can know that, if you ask. You have more mobility as an engineer whereas the tech usually doesn't. He may be more interested in learning from you to ensure his job security in the event you move on. He may also be working on gaining a level of confidence in your expertise.

People are complex and usually motivated by a number of factors. It's your job, in my opinion, to establish a good working relationship with him. You are the educated one and, as an engineer, you will be considered a part of management whereas the tech will most likely never be considered part of management.

Treat him with respect, teach him, if that's his interest, and try to learn from him as he learns you and from you.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program:

http://nspe-co.org/events.php

 

[SwinnyGG]

In my little corner of the field, techs are the ones that make the world go 'round.

My work is meaningless if it isn't fabricated correctly, installed correctly, operated correctly, and maintained correctly.

I find that my attitude- namely my openness about how and why I made the decisions I made, my willingness to explain something complicated when someone asks a question, my willingness to admit when I've made a mistake or when someone who is nominally 'under' me comes up with solution that's better/faster/stronger- all have a massive effect on how I am perceived by technicians/maintenance/installation/operations personnel.

Being seen as approachable and down to earth is a priceless currency, which you cannot buy. The only way to earn it is to be... wait for it... approachable and down to earth.

Treat people with respect, and when the time comes where you've made a mistake, or the customer make some insane demand, and you need those techs to work a Saturday to bail you out they'll do it. Because they know you respect them.

You'll also find that when you're approachable and respectful to tradesmen, they do a MUCH better job of reading your drawings or work instructions, and following the direction of those documents which you've produced.

In short, technical skill means a lot for an engineer- but for a lot of engineers, being liked is often of equal importance.

 

[TheTick]

Hostile relationships are usually symmetrical.

I disagree. So many shop staff and technicians have two wrong feet from which to start a relationship. So many places where "burn the engineer" is a national sport.

This climate usually is the product of years of bad relationships. But it's hardly fair to assume that it's mutual.

I will say that judging from the OP's English skills, he's most likely from outside the anglosphere. He better get used to a more egalitarian footing with technicians and tradesmen (and janitors and grocery clerks). Status- and caste-consciousness does not play well here.

 

[SandCounter]

"how much should the engineer be reserved about his methods etc to have his job"

No one should have to fear that transparency within their organization will lead to severance. If the name of the game is to spend a portion of one's work time learning from the "next" level up to one day fill the position, make sure you are shadowing the engineering office manager yourself. Let the tech learn from you so there is no reason to hold you back from filling the managers spot should it become available. If you feel the tech is a real threat, become indispensable to him.


I used to count sand. Now I don't count at all.

 

[Znjmech]

It has happened to me in my first job, in metal forming simulation where the software wad simple so I was given other works as technical designer, but after a while they decided to send the technical designer to the course, while they expected me to learn it myself, and after they didn't renew my contract, they transfered that job to that colleague

 

[TheTick]

If your job security hinges on blocking others from attaining simple skills, then you are in the wrong job.

 

[CWB1]

The first sign of a lousy engineer is one who is unwilling to share his/her work, its also rather unethical not to do so. I will often invite senior techs to design reviews and/or solicit opinions otherwise from them as a sanity check on complicated designs. They might not be able to comment much on FEA or CFD but they can usually speak well toward potential manufacturing issues. Word of their input also gets around the shop and does wonders for helping get special favors.

 

[Znjmech]

It's seems that you are not reading my answers and despite everyone being an engineer all are on the side of tech.
While it's ok that the tech person or even the company rules don't allow the engineer know much about the laboratory details, and test modifications, the other side of the road is wide open.
This is absolutely asymmetrical, unfair, and exploiting and will prevent any company to grow and have a sane R&D

 

[IRstuff]

I'm pretty much getting the sense that English is not your natural language, because I've not yet made sense of most of your postings.

I don't really get what you are saying, but your last statements don't match with my experience. Engineers, as a rule, do the analysis and configuration of tests, and technicians execute.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[SwinnyGG]

We are most definitely reading your answers.

It sounds like you came here to validate an opinion you already held- that your work is sacred and no one else should be privy to your methods.

If you want to be effective, put out good work, get promoted, whatever- you need to rethink your approach. Being highly territorial will not help you accomplish any of those goals.

Has it occurred to you that the tech protects his methods because you are apparently working hard to protect yours?

 

[MikeHalloran]

It seems that you are not reading our answers.

The laboratory is where your ideas are tested. You should be there, in person, at least several times a day, and you should always know what's going on there, at least in respect of your own projects, and you should damn well know about any 'test modifications' before they happen.

Take off your damn necktie. Burn it.
Burn every necktie you own, except for the one you want to be buried in.

Your excrement smells as bad as anyone else's.
Get over yourself and get out there.






Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Znjmech]

Dear Mike , I agree with what you say While :

I'd love to be present in production sites and labs , I don't like just sitting at a table, it's mostly your manager that doesn't like to see you walking around to learn things that they might not want !! and overload you with work !
maybe in the past it wasn't like this, now it is !

The tech will not love to see me around his table and lab obviously, and will avoid my questions with the excuse of being busy !

 

[MikeHalloran]

The tech is supposed to be busy.
Ask his permission to watch what he is doing, and do just that.
Do not ask questions. Answer any that are asked.

If you need permission from your boss to wander out to the lab, you are chained to the wrong oar on the wrong slave ship.

[sup][/sup]

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[GregLocock]

Before going into the lab make sure you wear all the appropriate safety gear. There's one lab I used to go to where workboots, high vis vest, safety glasses and usually ear defenders were needed. You've got bridges to build, don't make the easy mistakes.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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