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Power Supply Options 5

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owg

owg

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Is there a place on Eng-Tips where power supply options for the Earth are discussed? It looks like nuclear will be out of favour for a few decades and it is hard to take wind and solar seriously as major reliable components of a supply mix. Natural gas seems to be in favour in spite of its generation of CO2.

HAZOP at
 
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You could try here:
forum633

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
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Or they'd been discussed here before.

Various of the 'global warming' etc. threads started out discussing these kinds of topics.

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​
 
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"Wind and natural gas working together "


So...politicians are the way forward?
 
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maybe you don't take wind and solar seriously and they aren't major sources - however renewable energy developers take it very seriously. And there is a large market for planning, environmental and engineering services for these projects which we are trying to serve. Given the fact that at least in the US, it takes perhaps 25 years to site, design, permit and start up a nuke, they can build a lot of wind turbines in the meantime...
 
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Hmm. No wonder they love it...

"Brown also claims "330,000 extra jobs have been created in Germany because of legislation moving to a clean, green energy future". If only.

The figure of 330,000 green energy jobs may well be true if you add up all employees working in industries such as wind energy, biomass and solar power.

But were these extra jobs created as a result of green legislation? And at what cost?

First, it is necessary to count the costs of the alleged green jobs miracle. A study by the respected economic research institute RWI concluded that every single worker in these industries had been supported to the tune of E175,000 ($240,000). Given this enormous subsidy, it is remarkable how few jobs have been created."

and...

"Germany is a good example. ... it has led the world in solar panel subsidies, spending $US75 billion putting inefficient, uncompetitive solar technology on rooftops.

This delivers a trivial 0.1 per cent of Germany's total energy supply and will postpone the effects of global warming by just seven hours in 2100."

Thirdly. Every MW of windpower needs a MW of conventional SPARE generation to cover for lack of wind. Solar isn't quite that bad, as you can pretty much rely on getting 40% of the energy you expected on a given day.





Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
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If you forget about CO2 emissions and government intervention in the market, the answer is natural gas in North America at present. It's cheaper than coal.

If you bring CO2 emissions partially into the mix, it's probably wind with natural gas turbines as back-up.

If you bring CO2 emissions totally into the mix, the only way forward is a total re-think of the way we produce and use energy. I'm of the opinion that this is needed regardless of AGW fears, simply because fossil fuels are finite and have other, non-fuels uses which are FAR harder to substitute with other sources.

Any traction the nukers got over the past 20 years is gone now after Fukishima. The only way a new nuker could ever be constructed is if government limits the civil liability of the people who own and operate the plants. Governments in North America are not anxious to be owner/operators themselves, and I doubt the populace will be too willing to allow their governments to underwrite the liability of private for-profit owner/operators of new nukers after Fukishima.
 
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If the gas turbines are just used when the wind is not blowing, then the weakness of gas (not renewable and makes CO2)is minimized. I am always suspicious of the "jobs" argument. With no energy we would all be working.

HAZOP at
 
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Does having your wife chop and split the fire wood count as Renewable? I know it isn't a significant amount of thermal energy, but it does make the beer taste better.
 
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Geothermal.

With some of the new cycles using working fluids other than water, the temp difference between the hot & cold 'reservoirs' don't need to be as big as they have been historically, which opens up possibilities in places not previously considered.

Geothermal can also be used for heating without turning it into electricity.

In fact, the earth can be used as a 'sink' for both heating and cooling of buildings as the temperature is generally pretty stable just a few feet below ground - as demonstrated in many cave systems.

Of course, one wonders if extracting all that heat from below ground and effectively dumping it into the atmosphere will have some negative consequence. Or maybe drilling shafts for geothermal will cause it's own problems if done in the wrong place.

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​
 
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Wind and natural gas working together are the future for North America.
Click to expand...

You are either
a. underinformed
b. practicing for a beauty pageant
c. pushing an agenda
 
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Tesla was on to something big. 2 poles, iron core, spinning, hmmmmmm?!?!
 
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Basically, I believe no one is in a position to be that certain.
 
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Watching TV commercials, my basis for scientific research, I would say anyone shilling for natural gas can be that certain. I'm also certain the best way to find a solution to the energy crisis and global warming is to put all effort into finding where Gilligan's Island is, settle the question on "Ginger or Mary Ann?" and then have the Professor make another clever invention with coconut shells, salt water and rocks to power the world.

If you watch television long enough, you can be certain to find all the needed solutions, or at least see all the reruns of Beverly Hillbillies.
 
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Why is it no one talks about nucular batteries? NASA still uses them for deep space craft, and they haven't had problems.

Also no has pointed out that natural gas generation isen't fast enough to back up wind power. Right now the only thing that is backing up wind power is the inerta of all that coal, nucular, and hydro electric generation.

The joke here is "look at that 30 MW cloud", which seems true that one cloud can reduce electric demand by 30 MW or more.

So maybe the best alternitive is more clouds to reduce electric energy demand.
 
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