Piping Standards 3

[hchrys01]

Hi,

I recently started working for a engineering company and i was assigned to determin if a certain type of piping (installed 2 years ago) can continue to opperate transporting gas at 4 bars. I have never worked with pipes before.
The pipes that were installed are different diameters of ASTM A53/A106 grade b certified to EN 10204/3.1. The customer asked for pipes under the standard EN 10216.

How can i show to the customer that the pipes follow this standard? I know from research that the pipes chosen can do the job.
Must there be a comparison of composition or mechanical properties?

Thank you

 

[kingnero]

EN10204 - 3.1 isn't a certification, but rather a material certificate or an inspection document, providing chemical analysis and mechanical properties.

CEN ISO TR 20173 classifies your steel belonging to group 11.1

The steels according to EN10216 fall under group 1.

I doubt you'll be able to document that the ASTM steels are conform to the EN10216 standard, but I have very limited with USA steels, so don't quote me on that.
Mechanical properties are taken a certain way (circumferential) for the EN10216, as these are used for pressure applications, which is not a standard test procedure.

Basicaly, if the client has asked for piping according to EN10216, that's what they should get. All deviations should be well documented and approved by the client. This is clearly a different situation, but it won't make your job any easier...

 

[LittleInch]

There's something not right here. If the piping is installed two years ago presumably to a design code or material spec which allows it to operate, why is someone trying to redesign an existing system??

It is difficult to get one material spec to match another but you can give it a go. Why does the client want a different spec our was the wrong one used? What is the design code of the piping?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[pennpiper]

hchrys01,
Your statement: "I have never worked with pipes before." indicates you should get your company to agree to bring in a properly educated, trained and experienced Piping Engineer to deal with this issue.
Little Inch would be a good example.

Sometimes its possible to do all the right things and still get bad results

 

[VerneE]

If the gas is steam, 60 psi steam is at about 310F. The piping thickness only needs to be about the thickness of paper for those conditions. However, such thin tubing isn't practical since standard piping has corrosion allowances, manufacturing tolerance, and safety factors included. I am not familial with the EN standards, but if those are inspection/receiving certificates, those do not affect the suitability of the piping to the design conditions.

 

[cvg]

the client asked for stainless steel and got carbon steel instead? How did that ever pass inspection?

 

[kingnero]

Client most likely did not ask for stainless pipes. EN10216 covers mostly non alloyed steel.

 

[DekDee]

kingnero,
EN 10204 Type 3.1 is most definitely certification.
Most (I almost said all) piping comes with a Mill Certificate (MTR in some parts of the world) that details the chemical analysis and mechanical properties of that material.
EN 10204 requires specific additional items to be complied with and if these requirements have been met then the Mill Certificate / MTR can list the material is in compliance with EN 10204 Type 3.1 / 3.2 etc, etc.

hchrys01,
If you have installed ASTM piping and the Client required EN compliant piping then you clearly have non compliant piping (unless a Concession Request was raised and approved).
Not much good asking for advice on an internet forum when it is clearly something your management needs to resolve,
Cheers,
DD

 

[kingnero]

ASTM A53/A106 grade b certified to EN 10204/3.1

EN10204 - 3.1 isn't a certification, but rather a material certificate or an inspection document, providing chemical analysis and mechanical properties.

kingnero, EN 10204 Type 3.1 is most definitely certification

Please read again what I wrote, maybe I wasn't clear enough.
You cannot get any metal certified according to EN10204; but rather plate, pipes, tubing, ... according to a certain standard (either ASTM or EN xxxxx or Japanese standards or ...), with a MTR according to EN10204.

 

[DekDee]

Kingnero,
This is an excerpt from a Lloyds Register publication.
As you can see they list Type 3.1 certificates, Type 3.2 certificates etc, etc.
If you have a certificate you must be certifying something ???
If a Mill Test Certificate or Material Test Report lists EN 10204 Type ..... on it that is the manufacturer certifying that the material listed complies with the requirements of EN 10204 Type .....
It has nothing to do with mechanical properties or chemical analysis.(that is governed by the material specification)
Regards,
DD

In Germany, inspection documents (certificate types) were originally specified in standard DIN 50049. These definitions of material testing and certificate types were adopted for European standard EN 10204, first published in 1991 when certificate types 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.1A, 3.1B, 3.1C and 3.2 were defined, which closely followed the definitions in the German standard.
EN 10204 was revised in 2004 with a simplified range of inspection documents (certificate types). These now only include types 2.1, 2.2, 3.1 and 3.2. − Type 2.3 has been deleted − Type 3.1 replaces 3.1B − Type 3.2 replaces 3.1A, 3.1C and 3.2 of the previous edition This reduced range of options was designed to make the standard easier to understand and work with.
What is a true Type 3.2 certification?
Inspection certificate “Type 3.2” is defined within EN10204:2004 as a “Document
prepared by both the manufacturer’s authorized inspection representative, independent of the manufacturing department and either the purchaser’s authorized representative or the inspector designated by the official regulations and in which they declare that the products supplied are in compliance with the requirements of the order and in which test results are supplied”.
Industry recognises an independent third party inspection as fulfilling the role of “purchaser’s authorized representative or the inspector designated by the official regulations”.
EN 10204:2004 defines the manufacturer as an “organization that manufactures the respective products according to the requirements of the order and to the properties specified in the referenced product specification”.
A manufacturer will be any party which carries out operations affecting the material properties of the finished product.
Examples of manufacturers are: steelmakers, foundries, smelters, forgers, pipe/plate mills, etc.
Therefore, true EN 10204:2004 Type 3.2 certification is produced by the manufacturer, with test results supplied. The independent third-party inspector will have witnessed test results and verified the material’s identification and traceability through objective eviden