I'm interested in acquiring a pipe locator. Specifically when copper tracer wire has been installed. I've been looking at the Leica DigiCat and associated signal generator, but thought I'd see if anyone here has any suggestions/recommendations/experiences. Thanks in advance.
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations TugboatEng on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Pipe Location 4
- Thread starter jartgo
- Start date
-
1
- #21
It seems clear to me that using two copper rods (they call it "Witching" around here) is totally bogus. The claims are 2 bent wires can:
- locate concrete pipes, clay pipe, plastic pipes, power lines...anything, any material your worried about.
- It can locate water,
- No one can say how acurate it is,
- No one can tell you how deep it can detect things,
- It works better for some people than others,
- No one knows how it works.
People forget the times they get it wrong. There's a driller I worked with that remembers all the things he didn't hit, but never mentions the phone lines he drilled through in our parking lot during an open house demonstration. (I watched him witch that spot - who needs a utility locate?)
With a few surface features people who have been around usually figure out how things are run, and can get it right on that alone a lot of time. Lines aren't just randomly put in the ground (Most of the time anyway).
I think witching is a poor and dangerous pratice.
This would be a good one for mythbuster.
Nobody knows how pigons and salmon figure out how to get home either, but it doesn't stop them.
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)
Getting back to the OP (maybe we owe that just a little time!), I don't know any obvious reason the radio detection wires would not work, assuming of course one could find the leads, assuming that the wires are properly located with the pipe, and also assuming that they are originally and remain intact underground. That however could be a lot of assuming in some field situations.
A contractor a few years ago told me additionally that sometimes wires don't survive HDD pulls (at least with plastic pipe, as the pipe generally has a much higher pull rating than the wire, and the wire is also fully exposed outside the pipe). While I understand some special high-strength and armored wires are available at some extra cost, they still have quite small allowable pulling load compared to pipe ratings, and generally must still be exposed.
A contractor a few years ago told me additionally that sometimes wires don't survive HDD pulls (at least with plastic pipe, as the pipe generally has a much higher pull rating than the wire, and the wire is also fully exposed outside the pipe). While I understand some special high-strength and armored wires are available at some extra cost, they still have quite small allowable pulling load compared to pipe ratings, and generally must still be exposed.
jartgo,
We use a Metrotech 810 for our line locates when using tracer wire. It works very well and will provide you horizontal location as well as depth to wire. Having a good understanding of signal strength and capabilities is very important when using one of these machines. If there are other utilities, such as gas, phone, power, etc. that are in close proximity or crossing with little vertical separation, the signal can sometimes bleed off to these other utilities.
I have used the two copper/brass rods and have been about 50% successful. We usually only use this method when we are trying to find one of our water lines that is non-metalic and has no or broken tracer wire. We always dig carefully with this method and call for locates first.
We use a Metrotech 810 for our line locates when using tracer wire. It works very well and will provide you horizontal location as well as depth to wire. Having a good understanding of signal strength and capabilities is very important when using one of these machines. If there are other utilities, such as gas, phone, power, etc. that are in close proximity or crossing with little vertical separation, the signal can sometimes bleed off to these other utilities.
I have used the two copper/brass rods and have been about 50% successful. We usually only use this method when we are trying to find one of our water lines that is non-metalic and has no or broken tracer wire. We always dig carefully with this method and call for locates first.
MartinSr00
Mechanical
Had a co-worker a couple of decades ago. A very astute engineer and scientist whose specialty was vibration analysis. He did water-witching (dowsing) on the side.
He used bent coat hanger wires.
He maintained that it worked because the human body was a very sensitive indicator of magnetic permeability. The dowsing rods are motion toggles that take small muscular movements and magnify them greatly. He said that nearly anyone could do it, and that special powers or ability weren't required.
I was very skeptical. One day, several of us went in to the parking lot of our building in the area where the water service lines presumabley came in. Several of us "unconvinced" walked over a certain area and the wires crossed. I was unaware of any predjudice on my part (but who can say wheter suggestability caused it).
One time the company was digging for some large pipes that weren't where the drawings said they were. This fellow told them where to dig after dowsing, and the pipes were right where he said they were.
Was it all mere coincidence? Who can say?
He used bent coat hanger wires.
He maintained that it worked because the human body was a very sensitive indicator of magnetic permeability. The dowsing rods are motion toggles that take small muscular movements and magnify them greatly. He said that nearly anyone could do it, and that special powers or ability weren't required.
I was very skeptical. One day, several of us went in to the parking lot of our building in the area where the water service lines presumabley came in. Several of us "unconvinced" walked over a certain area and the wires crossed. I was unaware of any predjudice on my part (but who can say wheter suggestability caused it).
One time the company was digging for some large pipes that weren't where the drawings said they were. This fellow told them where to dig after dowsing, and the pipes were right where he said they were.
Was it all mere coincidence? Who can say?
Thanks, Zambo (link to a story about arrest of a guy, they said "out on bail" selling devices to locate bombs, supposedly based on "dowsing" principle!) [While stakes would appear to be generally a little higher in that field, I've heard some pipes can be like bombs].
Maybe it can find pipe bombs?
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
- member 1218030
- Water treatment and distribution