PE doing UT & MP Weld Testing 2

[PengStruct]

Maybe I should post this in the inspectors forum but I think this is valid here too.

I'm a structural PE with a small office offering design and inspections. I'm trying to market myself as a one stop shop for small projects where clients can get quality structural engineering complete with special inspection services. For welding, I'm ICC qualified but not qualified to inspect with UT or MP, basically I can just provide visual inspection. So, instead of having to subcontract NDT, I'm thinking of getting qualified for it myself so I do not have to hire someone else for that. My question for other engineers is, has anyone else tried this approach and if so, is it something clients even care about? My question for inspectors is what is the cost of the UT and MP equipment? Initial costs, calibration, maintenance costs?

 

[Ron]

For many years I was an ASNT Level III, Certified in Radiography. I was an ASNT Level II in Mag Particle and Liquid Penetrant. I was also, during that time period, an AWS Certified Welding Inspector (CWI).

I was (and still am) a P.E. Those services were an adjunct to my engineering practice and served me well; however, you have a disconnect in fee levels. Even as an ASNT Level III in Radiography, doing Level III evaluative work, I could barely reach my hourly rate as an engineer. Since I doubt, from your description, that you have sufficient experience as a Level I or Level II to get to Level III at this point, you would be looking, at best, at a Level II service as this is required by most Special Inspection criteria in the US. Given that, your Level II technician services would likely only be at a 1/2 to 2/3 level of your engineering hourly rate. That's tough to explain that for 4 hours on the project you were charging at $150/hr and for 6 hours of technician work you were charging $75 per hour. Clients think dollars.....so therefore your time is only worth the lower rate (as you have acquiesced by doing the services at a lower rate) and they should not be charged more. I have in the past and continue to charge my same hourly rate for whatever I do for a client. Time is time and my time all has the same value. I would not suggest that you shoot yourself in the foot by undermining your own time value.

As for certification.....if you take a proper route, it requires verified experience and mentorship to achieve Level II certification. This means you will work under the supervision of an experienced Level II or Level III certified person. Get a copy of "Recommended Practice No. SNT-TC-1A, Personnel Qualification and Certification in Nondestructive Testing" from ASNT. Here's a link to the Standards Section of their website.....ASNT Standards.

As for equipment costs, you can check with any of the major manufacturers for appropriate equipment. Expect to pay in the range of $15-$20k for a good ultrasonic flaw detector. Calibration is usually less that $1000 per year. MPT equipment is all over the board depending on the sophication you want, ranging from a simple "Parker Probe" to more sophisticated lab and field units.

Will require investment, training and diligence to comply with the standards. Good luck.

 

[racookpe1978]

A (surface only) dye penetrant NDE kit would be substantially less (but messier). Easier to learn as well.

Have you considered the AWS certification program as a certified welding inspector?

 

[JStephen]

I got my CWI several years back. One lesson learned: in some fields, you either need to do a lot of it or none at all, as you tend to forget the stuff you don't use. And being efficient requires some practice as well.

 

[PengStruct]

Ron, thanks for your reply, I did not think about the difference in fees, if I had to spend alot of time doing UT then that would be time I did not have to do engineering. The equipment costs are more than I thought. I'll have to think about it for awhile, if I keep getting jobs which require NDT then it may make sense.

racookpe: Most building structural engineers around here specify UT for CJP welds and MP for PJP welds so that is what I was going to target specifically. Dye Penetrant does not seem as common for building structural welds? I've read a little about going for the CWI but would that include the NDT certification?

JStephen, are you an HVAC engineer? What kind of work did you get as a CWI?

 

[JStephen]

I design tanks and some vessels. All of it welded, just I'm not ever the one doing the physical inspection of those welds. So the CWI class was informative, but the certification wasn't really needed for anything I did, and I let it lapse at the end of the 3-year period.