Owner/Contractor doesn't want me on site 5

[vato]

I recently visited the site of a new building which I designed to perform a construction observation of
wall reinforcement on an ICF building. I noticed a lot of honeycomb in the recently poured footers and I remarked that the walls need to be poured much better than that or I will reject it. I like to remove some foam in random spots to make sure the pour was done properly on ICF walls. The crew was also inexperienced in pouring icf walls so I had legitimate concerns. Anyway, the owner/contractor stopped communicating with me after I asked in and email when is the next pour? He has since told me, thanks for the design, but we are fine with inspections by the building department, we'll call you when we need you. I asked if it was ok for me to visit the site and photograph construction progress for my records (in an email). And now I'm getting no response.
I'm not sure how to handle this one. Do I have any legal rights regarding the ability to visit the site if it's not explicitly stated in the contract? Should I just raise my concerns to the building department and let it go?
Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[MacGruber22]

IBC 2012 1704.5 Structural observations.

All of the observation clauses say "When so designated by the registered design professional responsible for the structural design." As I see it *you* are designating yourself, "the registered design professional responsible for the structural design" as the "observer" as afforded by IBC 2012 1704.5

I would tell them you are afforded the right to observe your structure per the IBC 2012. If they say "no", to the building officials I would go.

 

[KootK]

In my jurisdiction (Canada), I have to sign off on building department paperwork at the end of a project or it can't be occupied. If I don't see stuff, I don't sign. Got anything like that for leverage?

The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.

 

[BAretired]

I don't know what the rules are in your area. In my area, the building officials demand Schedule C-2 "Assurance of Professional Field Review and Compliance". If the Engineer of Record (EOR) signs that, he is obliged to perform the necessary field review. If he does not sign it, construction is not permitted to proceed.

If the EOR has signed Schedule C-2 and is unable to perform the necessary field review, he is required to notify the authorities who will shut the job down until another professional engineer agrees to accept responsibility for field review.


BA

 

[MacGruber22]

My apologies for assuming you are in an area that uses the IBC.

 

[vato]

We are under the IBC and thanks very much. It's pretty laid back though with no building department requirements that I observe or sign off on anything. Thanks for the advice and the code reference. I feel much better. Now I just need to keep it professional with this joker and make sure this thing is not too messed up by now.

 

[msquared48]

WHOH Boy! Wait a minute here...

If you have not been contracted to do any observations, and cannot be there 24/7 to see what is REALLY going on here, do you really want to take on the liability here? I would say no. Definitely no.

I would write a letter to the jurisdiction putting the onus of the burden on them as they should have inspectors to perform those tasks. Whether they do or not is a moot issue here. They should. If they refuse to do so, then, in writing, formally remove yourself as the engineer of record citing the lack of professional workmanship as the issue. You do have the right to do that regardless of what the jurisdiction may tell you.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Interesting point Mike, that makes a lot of sense to handle it that way.

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

 

[CELinOttawa]

I agree with Mike. I would never sign off on a structure with a builder who has this attitude. I have refused to do so on a job when the builder was failing to call for routine site reviews and I couldn't see anything wrong. I also can't see through concrete!

 

[MacGruber22]

Observations and inspections are two different things.

 

[woodman88]

Be careful with the 2012 IBC and read the "Prior to" section for Structural observations.

2012 IBC
"1704.5 Structural observations.
Where required by the provisions of Section 1704.5.1 or 1704.5.2, the owner shall employ a registered design professional to perform structural observations as defined in Section 1702.

Prior to the commencement of observations, the structural observer shall submit to the building official a written statement identifying the frequency and extent of structural observations.

At the conclusion of the work included in the permit, the structural observer shall submit to the building official a written statement that the site visits have been made and identify any reported deficiencies which, to the best of the structural observer’s knowledge, have not been resolved.

1704.5.1 Structural observations for seismic resistance.
Structural observations shall be provided for those structures assigned to Seismic Design Category D, E or F where one or more of the following conditions exist:
1. The structure is classified as Risk Category III or IV in accordance with Table 1604.5.
2. The height of the structure is greater than 75 feet (22 860 mm) above the base.
3. The structure is assigned to Seismic Design Category E, is classified as Risk Category I or II in accordance with Table 1604.5, and is greater than two stories above grade plane.
4. When so designated by the registered design professional responsible for the structural design.
5. When such observation is specifically required by the building official.
1704.5.2 Structural observations for wind requirements.
Structural observations shall be provided for those structures sited where Vasd as determined in accordance with Section 1609.3.1 exceeds 110 mph (49 m/sec), where one or more of the following conditions exist:
1. The structure is classified as Risk Category III or IV in accordance with Table 1604.5.
2. The building height of the structure is greater than 75 feet (22 860 mm).
3. When so designated by the registered design professional responsible for the structural design.
4. When such observation is specifically required by the building official."

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

 

[MacGruber22]

"INSPECTION: ALL WORK SPECIFIED HEREIN SHALL BE INSPECTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE BUILDING CODE AND ALL LOCAL ORDINANCES. THE OWNER OR CONTRACTOR SHALL HIRE AN EXPERIENCED QUALIFIED INSPECTOR TO PERFORM ALL REQUIRED INSPECTION WORK. INSPECTION SHALL CONSIST OF VISUAL OBSERVATIONS OF MATERIALS, EQUIPMENT OR CONSTRUCTION WORK FOR THE PURPOSE OF ASCERTAINING THAT THE WORK IS IN SUBSTANTIAL CONFORMANCE WITH THE CONTRACT DOCUMENTS, LOCAL BUILDING CODES, AND WITH THE DESIGN INTENT. THE ENGINEER WILL NOT PERFORM THE REQUIRED INSPECTION AS PART OF THIS PRESENT CONTRACT WITH THE ARCHITECT/OWNER. UNDER THIS PRESENT CONTRACT, THE ENGINEER MAY VISIT THE SITE TO ASCERTAIN GENERAL CONFORMANCE TO THE CONTRACT DOCUMENTS. HOWEVER, SUCH VISITS SHALL NOT BE RELIED UPON BY OTHERS AS ACCEPTANCE OF THE WORK, NOR SHOULD IT BE CONSTRUED TO RELIEVE THE CONTRACTOR IN ANY WAY FROM HIS OBLIGATIONS AND RESPONSIBILITIES UNDER THE CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT. HOWEVER, IF DESIRED, "INSERT FIRM NAME". MAY BE HIRED UNDER A SEPARATE CONTRACT TO PERFORM THIS INSPECTION WORK."

This is a very typical clause in contracts where I am from. Based on the IBC, if your contract with the owner/contractor does not include inspection/special inspection services, than you are still afforded the right to observe construction as you deem fit. Observation does not beget inspection, and does not relieve the contractor of his/her inspection responsibilities. This is very clear in the IBC.

Now, if your contract as the EOR also includes inspection work, you have to resolve this issue before you ever step foot on site again.

Unless your county, city, state, etc. removed the model building code (IBC) structural observation clauses or modified them in such a way that causes a problem for you, that is my 2 cents.

 

[MacGruber22]

Woodman: I agree. You need to keep the building official(s) in the loop (in writing) as to what you are doing. I didn't include that.

My point is that the EOR may decide to observe their structure for any reason (When so designated by the registered design professional responsible for the structural design) without his or her visit being misconstrued as "inspections".

 

[SAIL3]

I agree with MS....this is really a can of worms.....my understanding is if I make a site visit, then I own what is going on on the entire project...if I choose to inspect only part of the project, then I am indirectly dismissing the rest as ok......to further complicate matters, if it is a penalty contract and my actions steming from the site visit causes a delay..well, guess what?, the penalized parties will probably find an engineer that would have approved what you felt was inadequate.
On a recent project, the wind velocity was approx 110mph using the wind maps in the code.On using these maps I always round-up to the nearest high value as they are really difficult to pinpoint exactly. Nothing wrong with this approach, except, a year later I found a wind site based on zip code/coordinates which indicated the wind speed as approx 105mph.....so be extra carefull in establishing the wind /seismic values especially if they might trigger the requirement for an independent inspection.
Unfortunately, upfront the stuctural engr does not typically know who the fabricator or construction contractor is and has little control over who is selected and wheather it is based on competency or the lowest bid price.More and more, the lowest price bid holds allot of sway.

 

[MacGruber22]

SAIL3, where do you practice?

 

[SAIL3]

I practice in the US

 

[MacGruber22]

my understanding is if I make a site visit, then I own what is going on on the entire project...if I choose to inspect only part of the project, then I am indirectly dismissing the rest as ok

So you don't visit your construction sites?

 

[Ron]

Mike is exactly right! Write a letter to the building official outlining your concerns as the design professional, including the fact that you have not been contracted for construction observation but that you noticed such on a progress check of the construction. ask him to pls check the items for which you have concerns. You can also file a recommended inspection plan with the building official, whether it is required or not and whether it is solicited or not.

 

[ajk1]

You are really in a bad situation. Firstly, I would have stayed away from ICF. Period. What you found is not unusual.

Second, you should have had in your contract with your client that you would carry out inspection, but on a "rational sampling basis", where you make it clear that not everything will be inspected. Do you have contract? What did it say?

Third, it sounds like you have an irresponsible client. Have you worked with that client before? You should try to explain to your client why it is essential that you carry out the inspections, but if the client remains thick-headed about it, you will have to go to the building department a.s.a.p. and advise them of the situation. The send a letter to your client that you cannot and will not accept responsibility if you are not permitted to carry out inspection in accordance with professional standards. You have to make up your mind that you will loose that client, but better to do that than compromise your professional integrity.

I assume that to get a building permit, you signed a form saying that you would carry out periodic site inspections. So bring that to the attention of your client.

It is not the building department's role to carry out structural inspections, despite what the public may think. Building departments generally have legal protection embedded in municipal bylaws protecting them from any liability. So do NOT rely on the building department to carry out structural inspections. If the building collapses, most of the blame will fall on you; the building department will get off scott free

You should consider discussing with your professional licensing body what they think the proper course of action is for you to take.

 

[XR250]

In our area, it is uncommon to even do construction observation unless it is a large project. Most owner/contractors are unwilling to pay for it since they feel the local building inspector is getting paid to do it.