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On the topic "to get ahead in my work"... 6

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JohnRBaker

JohnRBaker

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I say "I will try it out and get back to you" a lot when my managers ask me to do something new, could just be new to me or it's the first time the group is going to do something so I get "voluntold" as the new guy/youngest guy [lol]. My intention behind the words is to start the task, complete it if I can, and offer feedback on what I found difficult, confusing, enjoyable, etc. I don't think it is automatically a sign of less effort to say you will "try" something; If I were a manager I don't think "I'll try" would sound so bad to me.

Anyone here that really doesn't like to hear "I'll try" from their colleagues/direct reports?
 
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One size does not "fit" all.

That specific "thing" implies that the only reason there's hesitancy is you, which is a ludicrous assumption. It could be your boss; it could be the task, or even all three. Many engineering tasks are nearly impossible at the get-go; that's why DARPA exists. "DARPA-hard" essentially is something that's absurdly difficult and requires more money that your boss has.

Your boss says, "I need you to build xyz that can survive on the surface of Jupiter for 50 days;" the only plausible answer, short of "that's ludicrous," is "I'll try." The fact that your boss is asking something that's well past unobtainium is something that's not even considered in the article.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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It can be important to say "not my job".
[ul]
[li]Is there someone else who should be doing the job?[/li]
[li]Are your responsibilities increasing enough to merit a promotion?[/li]
[li]Do they need more people on the team?[/li]
[/ul]
 
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1. “This is the way it’s always been done.” - something most often said to you, not by you.

2. “It’s not my fault.” - should you always take the blame for someone else's fault?

3. “I can’t.” and 7. “I’ll try.” and 8. “This will only take a minute.” may simply be honest assessment. "Yes" people are usually far more dangerous than "I will try people".

4. “It’s not fair.” shouldn't be used towards life in general, but may be applicable when talking about not having raise 3rd year in a row.

5. “That’s not in my job description.” - also not to be used everyday, unless you repeatedly asked to do someone else's work (and that guy is getting his raises).

6. “This may be a silly idea …/I’m going to ask a stupid question.” - appropriate when you are trying to make sharp turn in the discussion. Helps to wake everybody up.

9. “I hate this job.” and 10. “He’s lazy/incompetent/a jerk.” really only belong on this forum. No-one holding gun to your head forcing you to work with jerk on the job you hate.

"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future
 
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Never fails that every time I see a list of things suggested /not to say/ or /to avoid saying/ where the goal is obviously to form a better 'frame of mind' or 'perspective' that people immediately jump to thinking they are the obvious exception and can keep employing poor practices.

Instead of finding reasons you /should/ be doing the things outlined as poor practice in the article, maybe ask yourself what a better way to phrase it would be.

Such as @CheckerHater's comment re: #6. I would say that he misses the point only slightly. It's a valid point to use some phrases (even if self-deprecating) to get people to brace themselves and consider something unorthodox. I think the point, however, is to avoid using phrases that immediately cast you in a bad or ignorant light. Instead of "This is a stupid question, but..." maybe just say something like "Just to step back and look at it from afar, have we ruled out or even considered 'xxxxxxxxxx' yet?" Find a way to propose novel ideas without telling everyone you're saying something stupid. Say it, and people will sometimes believe you.

That's the point... framing the situation and general mood of your conversation can make more difference than the quality of content of your conversation. It's not ideal; it's just human. Granted, I expect engineers are among the trades most likely to suffer from lack of social nuance like this, so I shouldn't be surprised that all of the replies so far are attempts to denounce some or all of the article content. :)
 
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Seems to me the author has a "lack of social nuance," if they can't frame their solution in other than jingoistic platitudes. An hour's worth of thought could have produced a "Say This, Not That" article, which would have been much better .

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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Along the lines of . . .

"Do or do not, there is no try." - Master Yoda

Good luck,
Latexman

To a ChE, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.
 
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Another "you're doing it wrong" article. All of this can be overcome by being indispensable at what you do. As a boss once told me, "anyone worth their salt has quirks you'll have to put up with." Better advice is . . . Be worth your salt.

I used to count sand. Now I don't count at all.
 
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Not worth commenting on...

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
 
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I find these types of articles to be useful for proving to the author's boss that they're keeping busy... and not much else. The overall sentiment is noted, but the method of putting that sentiment into words usually falls quite short. Though I suppose if the author could achieve what many of us are asking for, they might already be a scientist/engineer.


Dan - Owner
URL]
 
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My favourite response to a silly request that I have no intention of addressing is;
"Consider it done ... "

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

 
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I once made the statement "even a booger eating moron would understand this" to an Executive VP, and his response was "mmmmmm I don't understand, what does that make me?" (he didn't approve the project, so I guess he proved my point since his replacement approved it the following year and it was hugely successful).

Another time I asked the VP of Technology if "he had always been that stupid", it turns out that he was anything but stupid and was actually smart enough to know what he didn't know and his "dumb act" was an affectation to get people like me to do a better job explaining ourselves. He turned out to actually be a great guy.

With age I FINALLY learned to not assume that a seemingly stupid question was as shallow as it seemed and not some subtle trap. I rarely call anyone names anymore.

Basically the list is about positive spin in marginal situations. Spin in inherently dishonest and blindly following the list will make you appear to be a lickspittle and of marginal consequence.

[bold]David Simpson, PE[/bold]
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
 
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I had a boss like that. He would always sit back in presentations and ask innocuous questions to get the presenter to go more in depth on certain topics.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of the article,

Not saying "Its not my fault" does not imply that you should accept blame (you fault or not), just dont use that wording! Work with the issue dont play the blame game (that you inevitably do if you say "its not my fault")
 
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Whenever someone tells me "Don't say things that way!", I interpret it as "You need to play psychological games!". I may handle my wife with kid gloves when she's upset, but I shouldn't have to tiptoe around a subject at work. If it was my fault, I own up to it... if it wasn't, I say so to prevent someone from getting the wrong idea about who to point the finger to the next day. Solving the issue at hand is required, of course, but there's nothing wrong with stating "It's not my fault" before resolving it. (IMHO).

Dan - Owner
URL]
 
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Sorry, but when others have been grossly negligent or similar at some point you have to call them on it, and making it clear when it really isn't your fault can be part of this.

I'm sick of this 'don't worry about how we got here just concentrate on how we fix the problem' - sure great to fix the specific issue but doesn't fix the broken system or whatever led to the mess in the first place. Given those that learn from history are bound to repeat it...

I'm more of a "Lack of Proper Planning and Preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part" kind of a guy. I object to working long evenings and weekends because say Sales & Marketing (to pick a common culprit) don't do their job properly.

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​
 
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Often my biggest problem, when I was still doing 'hard engineering' (before I went over to the 'dark side' and started to work for a software vendor) was having to fight with our purchasing department. They were always trying to second-guess either the suppliers recommended by engineering (often because we had worked very closely together when we were doing our 'make or buy' investigations) or sometimes even not procuring the precise item that we specified. On more than one occasion, I had to fight to prove that engineering had not made a mistake when something failed to go together correctly or failed prematurely because a purchased part didn't meet the original specs or that we failed to get the support promised because purchasing went with someone whom we had no prior history with.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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The article made me chuckle because in smaller working groups and one-on-one with colleagues I have occasionally prefaced questions with "This may be a silly question but..." for most of my career. I have heard both sides of the argument on whether/not "stupid" questions should be asked, however its been my experience that lousy assumptions are one of the most common causes of engineering mistakes so I rarely hold back on asking them if unsure and occasionally even to test other engineers' subject knowledge. Others are welcome to think what they will, and maybe its due to my somewhat-goofy personality but I have never known issues bc I've asked a "silly" question and am what most would consider a "fast-tracker" professionally.
 
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