Nozzles and Instruments on datasheet

[Melimelo]

Hello,

I have to complete some datasheets with all the design calculations I have.
For this, I have to specify all the nozzles and instruments that are on my equipments:
Nozzles are indicated by N1, N2, N3...and so on...Logical: N for nozzle...)
Instruments like "level gauges", "Pressure or level transmitters" are indicated by K1, K2, K3...and so on...
Do you know why they use K and not I for instruments?
Has the letter K got a meaning? (Maybe it's just specific to my company...?)
Other question: I have to specify the rate in #!!!! What is this unit? What does it mean? Is it the pressure that the flanges can bear??
(I have to say I'm French, in general, we don't use the same units like Englishspoken people...Maybe this is the problem...But, in my company, we work for different countries and we have to respect their units)
Thanks
Méli )

 

[JLSeagull]

Your reference to # or pound is likely obsolete shorthand for the flange class. Most vessel connections are ASME B16.5 style flanges. ASME standards are coordinated with other international standards. In the USA we normally use inch based nominal pipe sizes with the flange classes. A connection might show 2" 300# as an obsolete indication of 2 NPS (nominal pipe size) Class 300 and correspond to the international 50 DN (nominal diamter).

 

[unclesyd]

The only reason I see for using K is that I've seen cases where I has been confused with 1 in some prints.

The # is a short cu for pound, weight.
Usually the rate is expressed in pounds(#)/hour on data sheets.

 

[unclesyd]

To clear things up my reference was to a flow rate and I think KLSeagull be correct in stating the your # is the flange rating Class, Class 150, Class 300, Class 600....

 

[Melimelo]

# is for pounds!!! Waw!! OK!
So, if I have "Rate: 900#", it means the weight of the flange, right?
But why it is called "Rate"???
I will search the convertion of 1 pound on Kg )
Méli

 

[Melimelo]

Well, I found 1 pound = 0,45 Kg (almost 1/2 Kg)
And "1 pound" in French is "1 livre"...

 

[pennpiper]

Meli,
You have not given us any indication of what your background is or the number of years of your experience.
But from the tone of your question and your other comments on this specific subject I get the idea that you are somewhat of a novice. If I am wrong, please forgive my assumption.

Point:
The 300#, 600# or 900# reference to flanges has nothing to do with the weight of the flange. It is the "Rating" of the flange and is a direct reference to the relationship to the maximum Pressure/Temperature Design condition.

I suggest that you need to find an experienced Piper and have him or her show you a Flange suppliers book.
You might also want to learn a little about the language of piping.

Yes! Piping is a language. It has an alphabet (component symbols) which, when put together properly will form words (assemblies) and then the words join other words form a sentence (configuration) from there you build a paragraph (a complete pipe line) and then a chapter (a unit) and then a whole book (a complete plant). To be a good competent piper you must know and understand all the rules of spelling (assembly of piping components) and all the rules of grammar (routing of piping systems). In order to produce a “Best Seller” you must also know and understand the wide variety of equipment types found in a process plant. These include pumps, exchangers, vessels, tanks, heaters, compressors, and many others all with their own specific quirks and needs that impact installation, operation, maintenance and safety.

The goal of this piping language is to communicate. There are many steps along the path a project takes but the final method of communication is a drawing, normally a simple piping isometric. You will be communicating with many different people and groups with different responsibilities and levels of understanding. These groups include; material control technicians, pipe fabrication shops, construction managers, installation sub-contractors, pipe fitters, insulators, painters, the client, inspectors, etc. If you know and use the right alphabet (symbols) then all of these people will understand exactly what you are “saying” with your simple piping isometric drawings.

Today to be a good piper also requires learning the “tools” that are available and used. Like a “writer” of novels some times the writing is done longhand and sometimes it is done on a computer. Piping is the same. You must be able to draw piping longhand and in today’s world you must be able to use one or more of the many CADD systems (AutoCAD, CADWorx, PDS, PDMS, etc.). Doing piping on a computer does not in itself make you a good piper. Doing piping manually, out there in the field in the hot sun or in a driving rain storm or in a nice office also does not make you a good piper. Doing good piping, no matter how you do it, is what makes you a good piper. By all means learn to use all the available “tools” but do not let yourself get locked into one system. Over the last thirty years as many if not more of these systems have died (Calma, ComputerVision, Coopervision, etc.) than there are still in existence today. You may also leave one employer with one system and go to another employer with a totally different system. You need to be flexible and adaptable.

Another point, learning Piping is first the learning of a profession. Learning PDS (or one of the other computer based drafting tools) is learning a tool. Learning to use the “tool” is not the same as learning the profession. The tool is not the profession. Look at it this way. A carpenter builds things out of wood. He has lots of tools. Years ago he used a hammer to drive nails. Then along comes the pneumatic nail gun. The carpenter can now drive nails faster. That is fine if the carpenter first knows good carpentering. When a pneumatic nail gun is placed in the hands of a bad or untrained carpenter you still have a bad or untrained carpenter. He (or she) can just make more mistakes faster.

To be a good piper takes many years. It takes the right kind of training and experience to accumulate the knowledge that will make you a professional. That training and experience teaches you the right way and wrong way to use the piping language to communicate your designs.

 

[JLSeagull]

The term pound would not be related to weight and flange class. In the contect, somewhere between the two great wars it might have related to pressure in psig corresponding to the pressure and temperature for saturated steam for some grade of steel. Do not try to associate pressure or weight with flange class whether psi or kg. Use the individual material tables in ASME B16.5 with flange classes in columns and tabulating the maximum pressures corresponding to the temperatures.

The other mention of pounds per hour pertains to a mass flow rate using pounds mass (a misnomer). properly using the units, a gram is mass, a pound is force.

 

[Melimelo]

Hello again and thanks for your answers!
Right, I didn't introduce myself, I did it in another topic but I should do it everytime I start a new one...
Well, yes, I am completly novice, I'm chemical or process engineer and I'm working in a gas company since 2 and 1/2 month, almost 3 months.
It's my first job and I love it, but for the moment, I feel so bad even if everything interests me!
I was not so bad at school but I find the reality a little different, a lot of things I didn't meet really at school...
Another problem, I'm French (sorry for my mistakes! ))and we work in English almost everytime and I have to learn all the technical words and understand the units...
Anyway, thank you for your explanations! )
I steel find the term "pound" not adequate and strange...
Things could be more simple...
Méli

 

[pennpiper]

Meli,
Don't worry about being new, and don't give up. There are a lot of people out here who are ready, willing and able to help the novice.

For starters:
To learn a little about piping go to this website (

http://www.pipingdesigners.com)

and read everything there is under each of the "Buttons" marked
"Training"
"Tools"
"Tips"

 

[Melimelo]

Hi Pennpiper,
Thanks again for the information.
Yes, I know pipingdesingers.com, I was reading this excellent site right now...It have been advised to me yesterday by...I don't remember who...)
It takes a little time for me, because it is in English, but I dont' give up! )
See you!
Méli