No confidence in design 13

[PEinVA]

Guys,
Over the last 2 months or so I've had a few times when thinking about designs I've done, about how people could easily die or get seriously hurt, that I've almost given myself a panic attack. I've just had serious doubts about my work and designs and I comfort myself by doing some reviews, etc.

I don't want to suffer like this.

Any help from the older guys?

RC
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

 

[ctopher]

Are you new at engineering? Just out of school?
If so, 2 months is not enough time to beat yourself up.
It takes time. Give yourself a couple years experience to judge yourself.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[HgTX]

Does your design office have a quality control system?

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[ash9144]

Assuming you are new to the your field. Give yourself some time. Consult with some of the more experienced engineers you work with. When some of your designs become reality, successfuly, then use those to build your confidence. Also where mistakes are encountered use to learn and know those won't be repeated.

 

[PEinVA]

Thanks for the quick response.

I'm a little over 2 years out. The reason I'm worrying more is that I am doing bigger projects etc.

We are 4 engineers in the office. Our quality control is basically review designs briefly before the boss stamps, and we usually sit down and review stuff with the boss for anything out of the ordinary. I just get myself worked up that I missed some all important piece of information, but I haven't found that.



RC
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

 

[ctopher]

Some helpful info:

http://www.omwcorp.com/how-to-design-machined-parts.html

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[PEinVA]

thanks,
but I'm structural

RC
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

 

[DesignerGuy16]

Do like I do and brainstorm out loud with your co-workers as you go. You'll always get a fresh perspective and more than likely catch mistakes or make improvements to everything. It also is great for learning new things.

I've been in machine design for like 8 years now (and I'm only 26). It's been a long hard road, but they don't teach this sort of thing in a classroom. I've seen more "pure" engineers stumble at design because they're not creative or flexible enough.

There's a lot of "art" that goes into this kind of work, and it takes a lot of patience and variety of work to become a good designer. Having been through a lot of different industrial fields from industrial part washers, material handling equipment, extrusion tooling, robotic system design (including tooling, pneumatics, fixtures, safety, etc), and food processing and packaging.

I've seen all sorts. Just give it time, and ask a lot of questions! If you aren't "comfortable" with being alone on the big projects, ask if you can be more of a helper for everyone else and take on the small projects. You'll find you'll get a lot more variance that way and see much more in a short period of time.

Last of all, just keep your head up! Have fun. I get the same feeling at work designing some new contraption that I did playing with lego's as a kid.

James Spisich
Design Engineer, CSWP

 

[PhilBW]

Hg's response is the key here.

No engineer should ever release any drawings or other design information until they have been reviewed in detail by another engineer, especially if human life is at stake. I have yet to find an engineer who can crank out designs day after day and year after year and not evenutally make a mistake. If your office isn't receptive to this sort of quality control, you need to find another job.

Phil

 

[dgowans]

You will definitely gain confidence in your work as you see it successfully become reality. However, I would caution you to not entirely lose your sense of self-doubt; it will keep you motivated to maintain the quality of your work.

I echo the others' sentiments that peer review is one of the most valuable resources you have.

 

[PEinVA]

Don't get me wrong, we do review everything, but typical connections, etc are not reviewed in detail for every job, it is just not wise, in my opinion. I wasn't really looking to turn this into my office's problem.

It is my problem. I was wondering how do you get over this fear/concern?

RC
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

 

[FACS]

Not trying to be funny, but you might want to see someone about anxiety problems.



Charlie

http://www.facsco.com

 

[drawoh]

RCraine

Over the last 2 months or so I've had a few times when thinking about designs I've done, about how people could easily die or get seriously hurt, that I've almost given myself a panic attack...

Thank you.

It is the guys who do not worry, who worry me.

JHG

 

[JAE]

I guess what you feel is nothing new.

Check out what Herbert Hoover once said about engineering:

[blue]Engineering ... it is a great profession.

There is the fascination of watching a figment of the imagination emerge through the aid of science to a plan on paper. Then it moves to realization in stone or metal or energy. Then it brings jobs and homes to men. Then it elevates the standards of living and adds to the comforts of life. That is the engineer's high privilege.

The great liability of the engineer compared to men of other professions is that his works are out in the open where all can see them. His acts, step by step, are in hard substance.

He cannot bury his mistakes in the grave like the doctors.

He cannot argue them into thin air or blame the judge like the lawyers.

He cannot, like the architects, cover his failures with trees and vines.

He cannot, like the politicians, screen his shortcomings by blaming his opponents and hope the people will forget.

The engineer simply cannot deny he did it. If his works do not work, he is damned.

That is the phantasmagoria that haunts his nights and dogs his days. He comes from the job at the end of the day resolved to calculate it again. He wakes in the night in a cold sweat and puts something on paper that looks silly in the morning. All day he shivers at the thought of the bugs which will inevitably appear to jolt its smooth consummation.

On the other hand, unlike the doctor his is not a life among the weak.

Unlike the soldier, destruction is not his purpose.

Unlike the lawyer, quarrels are not his daily bread.

To the engineer falls the job of clothing the bare bones of science with life, comfort, and hope. No doubt as years go by the people forget which engineer did it, even if they ever knew. Or some politician puts his name on it. Or the credit it to some promoter who used other people's money ... but the engineer himself looks back at the unending stream of goodness which flows from his successes with satisfactions that few professionals may know. And the verdict of his fellow professionals is all the accolade he wants.[/blue]

 

[KENAT]

I've made some boobs in designs, none safety critical that I can think of but certainly errors that had some kind of impact. There's usually a mitigating factor but still, it annoys me.

For anything safety critical I've always had my work thoroughly reviewed. In defense my drawings got approved by 3 people after me. Now that's not to say I slipped all the responsibility onto them but that, combined with the testing we did gave me confidence.

At this job, with a few exceptions, there is at best one other name on work, and that's often more concerned with drawing correctness than function. It's here I've probably made my worst design, it was presented at design reviews etc, drawings were checked, passed minimal testing but doesn't work well in operation and gives field support issues. Sometimes I find myself thinking about it late at night, and the improvements I'd make if I were to do it again.

However, it wasn't my idea to assign the job to someone new to the industry, or to give a very tight timeline, or to decide to skip most testing and put it on a revenue tool, or to not allocate any time to incorporate required design changes found during the limited testing...

So I remind myself of this, roll over and go to sleep, eventually.

To help give you more confidence, go over your work yourself as well as having peer review. Not straight after you've done it but a few days or more later (or as late as schedule permits).

Also there should be multiple checks and balances, not just the person reviewing your drawings but even the person planning the work, ordering the materials, doing the work, inspecting the work etc. So long as everyone (or at least the majority) are safety/quality conscious mistakes should be limited in impact.

"Unlike the soldier, destruction is not his purpose. " Unless you're a weapons engineer like I used to be;-).

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[EddyC]

I've had similar feelings for much of my career. I believe that in my particular case, it is part of my personality. I expressed this feeling once during a job interview, and I got hired. The boss later told me that I was the only interviewee who understood the dangers of the work and that is why I was offered the job.

 

[ctopher]

I spent a lot of time in various companies' machine shops, welding areas, and inspection. These are great areas to learn about design and processes and will help you have more confidence to design better parts.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[GregLocock]

Interesting use of the word 'bugs' in that Hoover quote.

Yes, I wake up at 3 in the morning and go and make a cup of tea, switch the PC and the radio on, and run through the design again, usually with a different approach to the analyis. That comes with the territory.


Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[MikeHalloran]

I think it also helps to (roughly) analyze someone else's similar design, even (maybe especially) a competitor's, to get a sense of the real constraints on the problem that you both recognize, and to find areas where one or the other of you either didn't perceive something as a constraint, or chose to ignore it, or found a subtle way to deal with it.

I started doing it (comparative reverse engineering) consciously when I was writing software for a living, and I kept doing it when I went back into hardware. It's sort of like getting a design review from a truly unbiased party... not for free, however; it can be a lot of work.

The rubber- stamping process that passes for design review in a lot of outfits today is pretty much worthless for actually refining a design.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[cranky108]

I guess I am lucky that I usually get to consiter my mistakes in a dark room.

Other times it can be in a room full of people all asking why other people are sitting a dark room.

But the one that concerns me the most is why I can't make things happen fast enough to keep someone from being hurt.