New Composites fabrications shop

[carbongr]

I am planning of opening a new fabrications shop in Greece where I will be dealing mostly with Carbon Fibre using the wet/hand lay up, vacuum bagging, resin transfer manufacturing techniques. However, in the near future I would also be very interested in using pre-preg carbon fibre (using autoclave).
I have personally been involved the last 4 years with hand lay-up and vacuum bagging techniques and have great success. As I have been working alone in my home based workshop, I have not great experience of how a proper professional composites manufacturing shop should be. My question is about where I should ask for advice about what equipment I need to purchase, how to design the new building, what I should have and what not.

For example, I know that if I were going to build an Automotive garage, I could contact a relevant company where I could be able to find all the tools and equipment I required and are necessary for a garage.
Is there something similar for the composites industry?

Also, are there any exhibitions going on around Europe? (I forgot to mention that currently I am based in UK)

Another thing… before a few years, I had found one forum which was dedicated to composite materials. There was a section with many used parts. Unfortunately, I have lost the bookmark and can’t find it anymore. I would really appreciate if you could name a few other forums about composites. Luckily the one I looking for, could be one of them.

Thank you very much in advance.

Cheers,
George

 

[MikeHalloran]

I have bought small quantities of custom prepreg from:

http://www.jdlincoln.com/

Scott has been very helpful.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Reidar77]

As an employee at a composite shop that has lacking equipment. This is my wish list:

A really ridiculously big downdraft table. Huge plus. Almost worth quiting your job over if you dont have one. I currently do my trimming in a portable spray both. It works, but, not ideal or as effecient as a DD table. Still leaves the shop/me dusty.

Vacuum routed around the shop with several hook ups for running vacuum to various pieces of dust producing equipment. Like a band saw, belt sander, router, grinding wheel, etc....

A clean room that is actually clean and separated from the dust producing side of the shop. Lots of people say they have these....but really they dont. This is where parts are made, but, not finished/trimmed. Thats for the dusty side of the shop.

A respirator that seals your entire face from dust, and vapor. Full face shield type. I use the 3M 6000 series now...good...but not ideal.

A table saw. If you plan on building a plug from wood EVER, then make sure you have a table saw and a miter saw.

Heres some things that make my job easier:

Ren Tooling board
Polystyrene foam
Fillet shapers
Duratec/Hawkeye finishing products
Semi permanant mold release (wax is for the birds, and PVA is a bandaid)
Flush trim router bits
600 grit orbital sand paper wet/dry
3M aluminum tape, and only 3M (not the cheap/weak hardware store type)
DP100 and DP420 expensive but worth it
lots of heavy smooth finished construction paper/cardboard
Melamine (white lamenated board)
A kick but jig saw with a diamond grit blade
A diamond grit band saw blade
A ball and chain attached to the rafters of your shop (if you plan on building anything large).
Coverals with the hood and boots. Better to have, than have not. You can always cut the hood/boots off if there in the way.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Also a fairly big chest type freezer or refrigerator in which to store the prepreg to keept it from kicking by itself. It arrives slit to your specifications, wound on a fat paper tube, which should be stored with its axis horizontal, so you need to build something like a wire spool rack inside the fridge, or make up some little sawhorse type supports.

You need a small overhead traveling crane to get the spooled prepreg into and out of the fridge. A forklift can work, but is awkward. You won't want to handle full spools by hand; they're heavy. If you get it slit at the prepreg factory, it can come on short cores, which are easier to handle. You still need a crane for the shipping box. If you're making heavily curved parts, you can have some of the tapes made fairly narrow.

You've already figured out that you'll need ceramic scissors to cut the carbon fiber. You'll also need large wastebins in which to deposit the release film as you unroll the prepreg. It's all easier if you have a helper, maybe two.

Prepreg is not as messy as wet layup, but it's pretty sticky. Try several different kinds of gloves.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[carbongr]

Thanks for the replies.
Let me re-phrase my question thou; is there a supplier who also works like a consultant? Ideally, I am looking for a company, which will first listen to my requirements and then setup my shop in the best possible way.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Prepreg is still a small industry; they mostly know each other, and they refer work they don't want to each other. Pick one at random and work the phone for a few hours.

The guy you want is already sick to death of dealing with idiots who want to make carbon fibre auto parts on the cheap, and want to pick his brain for free. You may have to pay him in advance just to get him to show up.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[MattBryanton]

carbongr,

the forum you describe sounds like the old netcomposites forum. Unfortunately the forum is no longer supported but you should find plenty of useful information on the website at

http://www.netcomposites.com.

There is also an industry directory on this website which should help. The netcomposites team could definitely help you set-up your shop and could probably recommend suppliers.

Alternatively, you can also find supplier information at the CompositesUK website (formerly CPA) -

http://www.composites-proc-assoc.co.uk/memberslist.php

I think you could probably source most of the equipment you require from Aerovac (

http://www.aerovac.com)

but you will probably need more than one supplier to obtain everything necessary for all of your proposed manufacturing processes.

The most popular composites exhibition in Europe is the JEC show which is held in Paris every year in late March or early April. Defintely worth a visit if you have never been before. You can find details of this and other shows at the JEC website at

http://www.jeccomposites.com/agenda/.

Note that there is also an industry directory on this website.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Matt Bryanton

 

[carbongr]

Mike Halloran,
Of course i will pay him or anybody else who can organise such a job. I never thought that i service like this could be free! However, i am searching for the right guy.

Matt Bryanton,
I really appreciate your help. Thanks for the info and links.
I will definitely visit the JEC show next year.

 

[PanelGuy]

JEC would be good for you.

As well Composites Europe is the beginning of November in Stuttgart.

 

[Flipperz]

I think you have left out some important details about your future venture. What exactly are you planning to do in your new shop? Are you geared to a specific market, industry or product? Your analogy of the Automotive shop is a good one, for example are you going to be a full service center, work with OEM's or aftermarket, will you do brakes and tires or engine electrical? See what I am saying? You don't need to buy an expensive diagnostic computer if you are doing oil changes. Just as you won't want to invest in an autoclave and prepreg process if you don't have the work to support it. Do you repair or manufacture or both? Do you get into machining tooling and fixtures? Do you need to have paint/refinishing capabilities? Customer expectations or requirements.

Other factors to consider are how much space, are you hiring employees, are there any environmental, safety, federal or other regulations that need to be complied with? I have set up and visited many shops and work stations in both Canada and the USA and both manufacturing and FAA repair....BIG DIFFERENCES.... If you are currently working out of your garage and have been doing it for 4 years you must have a vision of what you need or would like and what your budget is. Some other replies mentioned the basics... grinding dust collectors (booth or downdraft are both effective depending on the application and budget) definitely a cleanroom that is positive pressure and independently temp and humidity controlled are the basics. Good compressor and air line plumbing design are also important. Curing ovens would also be necessary for high temp applications. You can easily expect to spend a minimum of 100K on 'capital' equipment to modestly outfit a small manufacturing/repair facility. That is before hand tools, consumables, tenant improvements and tooling... If you are thinking about an autoclave and all that comes with that process you can multiply my previous quote by 5 to 10 times! If you have anything to add I might be more helpful (and less cynical) Setting up your shop will be the easy part!

Cheers!