Need some input

[Martin222]

Hello,

First off, I would like to apologize as this may turn into a big wall of text in what may seem like ranting, but I'm here today to get some insight as to what I should do with my current problem in life.

I graduated last year with a BSc in Chemical Engineering, and I have been looking a job ever since, but not having any luck. I'm guessing it is because I don't have any prior industry experience as I did not join the co-op program through my University (stupid, I know), and I could not find any summer jobs related to engineering while in my University career. I have tried looking for jobs in the field, in consulting firms, in energy distribution companies, and many others, but couldn't even land an interview. The one interview I did get was through a connection (and it was my first interview related to an engineering career), and I did okay- but not the best. I have also tried applying for non-technical jobs in engineering companies, such as Data entry and IT support, but to no success.

Right now, I am considering going back to school- either for a Masters of Science in Engineering or get a certificate. I have talked to other engineers and my friends about this, and have gotten mixed replies.

Some have said: "Both certificate and Masters program will take 2 years anyways, so obtaining your Masters will be better. And a Masters degree will stand out more in the recruiters' eyes. Don't worry too much about the lack of practical experience you have."

Some people have said: "don't not go back to school. Masters will make you overqualified and employers won't hire you. Getting a certificate/diploma will just downgrade yourself, and why would you do that?. So keep on trying to apply for jobs."
I am a little concerned about the comment related to the Masters degree. I agree that getting a Masters will make you overqualified educationally, but I would still be considered "underqualified" when it comes to work experience. What are your thoughts on this? And I feel like "keep applying for jobs" will just waste another 6-12 months of my time.
In regards to the certificate/diploma "downgrading" myself, I feel like this shouldn't be a factor. I feel like I'm at the very bottom right now, and I have nothing to lose. I feel like getting a diploma/certificate will help me in the end, because they provide the practical hands-on experience that I feel like I desperately need right now, and this is something that a Masters cannot provide you. As to what kind of diploma/certificate, there is an institute of technology near my area that offers three kinds of programs that catches my eyes:
1- Chemical Engineering Technology
2- Engineering Design and Drafting Technology:
3- Instrumentation Engineering Technology

I think I will stop here before everyone decides to close their browser! To sum everything up, I think the best decision for me is to go to school, but I can't decide whether to do my Masters or apply for certificate/diploma program instead, and I would to hear what you think here.

Thank you in advance for everyone's valuable advice!

 

[MikeHalloran]

While intending no offense to holders of '...Technology' degrees, those certs are, or should be, beneath you. I.e., I'd expect a tech working for a ChemE to hold a ChemET ticket, and the drafter working for them to hold a ED&DT ticket, and the guy installing stuff to the drafter's plans to hold a IET ticket. You should know and appreciate what all those people do, but you should be working at a higher level.

I'd guess you blew the interview that you got through a connection.

Connections are like gold.
Before you waste another one, work on your interview skills.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[zdas04]

There are jobs out there. You didn't say where you live, but it doesn't really matter. Go to Houston or Calgary or Aberdeen or Brisbane and knock on the doors of Halliburton, Schlumberger, BJ, Weatherford, etc. The work is really interesting, but it is really hard work, long hours, requirements to travel on short notice, and really crappy work locations. At the end of a couple of years you should be able to hire on with an Oil & Gas company without much problem and with a wide range of useful skills.

Don't want to work in Oil & Gas? McDonald's is always looking for self starters. Oil & Gas is not the only option, but with the explosive (no pun intended) growth in activity from the oil shale plays. Generally when someone is finding it impossible to find a job the problems are some combination of:
[ul]
[li]Crappy/Entitled attitude ("I need a job, you have an opening, I deserve to fill it")[/li]
[li]Crappy CV full of typos and misspellings that reads like a phone book (no flow or continuity)[/li]
[li]Unwilling (or even just not enthusiastic) about travel and/or relocation[/li]
[li]Limiting yourself to your dream industry even though it is in a stagnant/declining industry [/li]
[li]Letting the interviewer know that you "settled" for this opening and if something better opens you will scamper over there[/li]
[/ul]

Without experience you are a "New Grad". New grads must be trained, must be mentored, take a considerable amount of effort to turn into an asset. A MSChE without experience is a "New Grad" who demands more pay and has an even higher likelihood of scampering prior to making a positive contribution. When I was in the position of evaluating new grads I would toss any with an MS and no experience without reading further--too high a risk for too low a possible reward.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[SNORGY]

Martin222,

Tough as it is, just keep at it. In 1983, I was where you are now. It took me 1,200 job applications, from which I had three interviews and one offer. To get the offer took me 13 months. The whole ordeal made me wonder why I went to University at all. A friend who graduated with me in high school came to visit. He was already a manager in a retail store and drove a new car, and he had just bought his first house. I was crawling out of a basement suite, and the only things I owned were a few clothes, 60 textbooks, a wallet and $6.11 CDN. Me, the top student in my high school, the one who was supposed to go far...broke and in a freakin' basement suite 5 years later. It kind of sucked to be me, to be honest.

But I did learn a few things. I learned how to survive in a shabby rooming house inhabited by bikers, street bums, alcoholics and runaway street kids - and still graduate from engineering. I learned how to make friends with those people. I learned how to keep plugging away.

If I was you, and if I had the academic credentials to get a Masters, and if that's what I wanted to do *for me*, then that's what I'd do. Don't stress too much about what "the market" wants...you don't owe them anything until somebody among them hires you and starts paying you. Write several versions of your resume; if you figure you want to go after a job that you are over-credentialed for, then use the "less credentialed" version of your resume. If you end up selling sports jackets in Sears, they can't fire you purely on the basis of finding out you have a masters degree in engineering. Nor do you need to divulge that information. You *would* need to divulge if you were *under*-qualified.

You have just emerged, successfully, from the academic obstacle course. It's frustrating, but keep at it and put a different spin on the situation: use this time as the time that you have earned towards deciding what you want - not what you think someone else might or might not want.

 

[beej67]

You're in a field where the jobs are very location specific, the locations are quite often terrible, and the pay is great.

Move somewhere with oil.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[FreddyNurk]

As much as I'm amazed that Brisbane appears in the same list as the other locations, zdas04 is right. whilst I'm currently in the privileged position of being able to say I'd never work for (*now known as) Weatherford again, I don't regret for a second the work experience or locations that I got to visit whilst employed by them.

The work is challenging, the hours are long, but you learn a hell of a lot more in a short space of time, and if you hold out for a couple of years, theres a lot of opportunities available.

Better still, find someone working for those companies and ask them about the conditions and jobs that might be going... With my former employer, they preferred hiring people associated with existing employees as they were more likely to work with the conditions. It certainly worked for me.