Natural gas pipelines 3

[civilizerengineerr]

Hello,
The picture on the attachment is the simplified of the real situation.
I am an engineer too. But this natural gas project will exist on my own field. I don't have information about pipeline engineering.

First, the 40 INCH PIPE was constructed (in 2005).
Then the VALVE 2 in the picture was constructed (in 2007). It belongs to the 6 INCH PIPE.
At last, the VALVE 1 and the 10 INCH PIPE is being constructed now. But the problem is that...
I think the two valves are very near to each other. The distance between two valves is 1,20 meter.
Can you please help me if you see something inappropriate ? If there is, I will argue against it.
Is there a restriction about the distance between valves on European Standards or European regulations for safety, environmentally ?
Thanks for your help.

 

[Dhurjati Sen]

Dear civilizerengineerr,

Are these welded valves? If yes, provide the distance between the two welds.

How many longitudinal seams does the 40" pipe have? Are the weld seams staggered?

If there are no issues regarding above, re-post in "Chemical Plant Design & Operations" forum.

Regards.

DHURJATI SEN

https://www.nace.org/people/dhurjatisen

 

[LittleInch]

Civil,

Do you have any information about the pressure in the pipe or why there are these valves in close proximity?

Either way I can't see any issue with this, but a bit more background and where these connect would be useful.


Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[mk3223]

IMO, there is no issue of the space of 1.2m between two fence lines, which is not between two valves.
Or, can the fence be removed between two valves if they are all for the same company?
Or, is it allowed to use a common fence between two valves?

Assuming that these pipelines are underground construction. And, it seems that the sketch was inaccurate regarding to the route of 6" pipe related to the valve #2.
The question could be if the Contractor, who working on the new 10" line, knows exactly where the 6" run related to the valve #2, and if the new 10" pipe to be cross over the existing 6" pipe and how far apart.

 

[civilizerengineerr]

Dear Dhurjati Sen, thank you very much for your reply. I have no information if the valves are welded or not. I will try to get information about welds and seams on the pipes. Then, i want to write to you again. Regards.

Dear LittleInch, Thanks for your help. I know that there are high pressure in the pipes. They are two different projects. They were projected on different times. They are very close to each other. But i don't know why. I thought that building these two valves very near is dangerous in case of fire or explosion.
This 1st field belongs to me. The 10 inch pipe in the scheme is the third expropriation on my field. As you see, the 10 inch pipe goes along the center of the field longitudinally. This situation makes farming very difficult. And the pipes reduce the yield. I try to prove that this construction is inappropriate for safety and environmentally. Thank you again. Regards.

Dear mk3223, thank you very much for your replies. two valves belongs to different companies so i think the fence can not be removed. I will research again about the route of the 6 inch pipe related to the valve#2. As far as I know, the distance between 10 inch pipe and 6 inch pipe is 30 meters. I wonder if these very near valves and pipes are dangerous in case of fire or explosion. Regards.

 

[LittleInch]

civil,

There are some puzzling things about your situation which could help us if they were explained.

1) You mention European standards, but which bit of Europe are you in?
2) Do you know whether the (large) 40" pipe is feeding gas to people or collecting it?
3) Having three valve stations this close is really quite strange and I'm struggling to understand what is going on here
4) Having a gas pipeline in the middle of the field should make no impact on farming activities above it. If it does then the company that installed it needs to come and put it right.
5) If it's your land, you must have some details on this pipe
6) The 1.2m is unclear. Is it the distance between fences or valves connections or what?

Either way, your risk is dependant on the same 40" pipe. If ther eis an issue with one valve it might affect the other, but the total will be the same.

If you had two independent pipelines running very close then yes, one could affect the other and add to the damage, but not two valves coming off the same pipe.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[civilizerengineerr]

LittleInch,
I will try to answer your questions as much as i can.
1) I am from Turkey. Turkey is not a European Union country but a candidate. Our legislation has been harmonising with that of the EU. Some of our legislation about natural gas pipeline transportation systems is based on EN standards such as EN 14161.
2) The 40'' pipe feeds gas to people.
3) All the pipes feeds gas to people. First the 40'' inch pipe was come. Then, the valve#2 and 6'' pipe was come. At last, valve #1 and 10'' pipe were constructed. Every system takes gas to different cities. But as mk3223 said, i wonder if valve#2 and 6'' pipe really exist like this. This is the local thought. I mean, my family and our neighbours claim about the places of them. I need to reach the technical projects.
4) There are a lot of natural gas pipeline expropriations in the neighbourhood. A lot of farmers claim that the coldness in the pipes makes the soil very cold and makes the plants grow hard.They also claim that the harvest on the pipeline is less than normal for years.
5) I will try to reach more information.
6) The 1.2 m distance is between the fences.

I could not understand your last two sentences. Would you please explain more ?
Thank you again.
Regards.

 

[LittleInch]

Ok, this is becoming clearer.

It is a little strange to have two such offtakes in close proximity, but it could be that the 6" pipe no longer can supply enough gas so they need a bigger pipe.

either way, having two such connections, even close together, is not a hazard and should not create any more risk than the main pipeline itself ( which should be very low).

Temperature of the large pipe in particular could impact crops and you can often see the impact, especially when the crops start to grow. Poor yields after construction implies that the original construction may not have separated the topsoil properly or may have spread subsoil around due to the size of the pipe. Either way this is a continued claim against the pipeline operator. Land owners and farmers are normally compensated for crop loss due to pipeline construction, however proving it can be difficult, especially after 5 years after construction.

what I meant in terms of separation is that having two valves close together like this does not increase the risk. If however you laid a new pipeline within 5-10m of an existing one, there may be an increase in risk because damage or rupture of one pipeline could impact the other.

In summary, I don't think there is any large risk increase in what is proposed.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[civilizerengineerr]

LittleInch,
Thank you for your answers very much. I will try to get more information.
You have been very helpful.
There is a court on 7th of May. I will try to do my best.
Regards.