I have a new 3 story building that was designed with sprinklers in the attic and the contractor is asking if they can be removed and baffles be used instead. I believe there is a provision for that either in the Florida Building Code or NFPA 13R but I cant find specifics. Can anyone point me in the right direction
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NAPA 13R
- Thread starter samfields
- Start date
Sorry 13R does not require attic sprinklers
Are you sure you are dealing with a 13R system?
But still need to check with the ahj to see if they require them
Commentary :::
Are you sure you are dealing with a 13R system?
But still need to check with the ahj to see if they require them
Commentary :::
Still check with ahj
Does not appear Florida amended it::::
Does not appear Florida amended it::::
TravisMack
Mechanical
Just because it is 3 stories of residential does not mean that it automatically allows NFPA 13R.
Did the architect take an area increase for the building? If so, full 13.
Did the building/design team opt for sprinklers in lieu of draft stopping?
There are several reasons why you may need to keep the sprinklers in the attic. If you exhaust all of those, then you may be able to do as you indicated.
Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
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Did the architect take an area increase for the building? If so, full 13.
Did the building/design team opt for sprinklers in lieu of draft stopping?
There are several reasons why you may need to keep the sprinklers in the attic. If you exhaust all of those, then you may be able to do as you indicated.
Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
"Follow" us at
- Thread starter
- #7
Not build yet. The Fire protection engineer designed the attic with sprinklers. The Architect said its an Architectural issue not an engineering issue, its an Architectural issue. The attic is a combustible area, wood trusses, closed off and urethane insulated. When you say AHJ are you talking about the Code Department? I looked thru the NFPA 13 and the FBC, its not clear if baffles can be used instead of sprinklers. Dont understand why its not easy to find the answer in a code book.
1. Sounds like you are dealing with an enclosed/ conditioned attic.
2. Sounds like you are asking about """draft stops"""
Draftstopping materials.
Materials utilized for draftstopping of attic spaces shall comply with Section 718.3.1.
718.4.1.1 Openings.
Openings in the partitions shall be protected by self-closing doors with automatic latches constructed as required for the partitions.
718.4.2 Groups R-1 and R-2.
Draftstopping shall be provided in attics, mansards, overhangs or other concealed roof spaces of Group R-2 buildings with three or more dwelling units and in all Group R-1 buildings. Draftstopping shall be installed above, and in line with, sleeping unit and dwelling unit separation walls that do not extend to the underside of the roof sheathing above.
Exceptions:
1. Where corridor walls provide a sleeping unit or dwelling unit separation, draftstopping shall only be required above one of the corridor walls.
2. Draftstopping is not required in buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1.
3. In occupancies in Group R-2 that do not exceed four stories above grade plane, the attic space shall be subdivided by draftstops into areas not exceeding 3,000 square feet (279 m2) or above every two dwelling units, whichever is smaller.
4. Draftstopping is not required in buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.2, provided that automatic sprinklers are also installed in the combustible concealed space where the draftstopping is being omitted.
2. Sounds like you are asking about """draft stops"""
Draftstopping materials.
Materials utilized for draftstopping of attic spaces shall comply with Section 718.3.1.
718.4.1.1 Openings.
Openings in the partitions shall be protected by self-closing doors with automatic latches constructed as required for the partitions.
718.4.2 Groups R-1 and R-2.
Draftstopping shall be provided in attics, mansards, overhangs or other concealed roof spaces of Group R-2 buildings with three or more dwelling units and in all Group R-1 buildings. Draftstopping shall be installed above, and in line with, sleeping unit and dwelling unit separation walls that do not extend to the underside of the roof sheathing above.
Exceptions:
1. Where corridor walls provide a sleeping unit or dwelling unit separation, draftstopping shall only be required above one of the corridor walls.
2. Draftstopping is not required in buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1.
3. In occupancies in Group R-2 that do not exceed four stories above grade plane, the attic space shall be subdivided by draftstops into areas not exceeding 3,000 square feet (279 m2) or above every two dwelling units, whichever is smaller.
4. Draftstopping is not required in buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.2, provided that automatic sprinklers are also installed in the combustible concealed space where the draftstopping is being omitted.
TravisMack
Mechanical
This is why fire sprinkler work is a niche market. ![[bigsmile]](/data/assets/smilies/bigsmile.gif "[bigsmile] [bigsmile]")
First look in the code. Is the building permitted to be protected per NFPA 13R? That question must be answered first. It is not just residential less than 4 stories.
Answer the questions above using that building code. Have any allowances been taken that would require a full 13 system?
If not, the engineer may be wrong. Or, he may be putting sprinklers in the attic because many jurisdictions across the country are starting to require sprinklers in attics, even of 13R systems due to various reasons.
So, it could be required, it could be engineering judgement. Have you asked the EOR why he put sprinklers in the attic if this is truly a 13R system?
Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
"Follow" us at
First look in the code. Is the building permitted to be protected per NFPA 13R? That question must be answered first. It is not just residential less than 4 stories.
Answer the questions above using that building code. Have any allowances been taken that would require a full 13 system?
If not, the engineer may be wrong. Or, he may be putting sprinklers in the attic because many jurisdictions across the country are starting to require sprinklers in attics, even of 13R systems due to various reasons.
So, it could be required, it could be engineering judgement. Have you asked the EOR why he put sprinklers in the attic if this is truly a 13R system?
Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
"Follow" us at
stookeyfpe
Specifier/Regulator
Since we're all throwing spitballs, it could also be a lack of an adequate fire flow.
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