Moment connection to column web - dimension question

[JustSomeSE]

Hi all, a question for the steel detailers among you. Has anyone ever designed a moment connection in which a beam framing into a column web has a flange width greater than the column depth? The moments at beam ends are in the 150 k-ft neighborhood and well below beam yield capacity. When someone showed me this detail yesterday, my initial reaction was something along the lines of "well THAT looks like a bad idea" but I wanted to hear from someone with more experience. Good idea or bad bad bad idea?

 

[DaveAtkins]

I would weld stiffener plates to the column (four total)and weld the flanges to the stiffeners. The flanges will be wider than the stiffener plates, but if the moment is low, this is OK.

DaveAtkins

 

[JustSomeSE]

I suppose I just want to avoid the situation of the fabricator coming back and saying "hey, I can't realistically get enough flange plate into the column to transfer the moment".

More importantly, would selecting columns that have a depth at least slightly greater than beam width save money on special detailing/fabrication costs?

 

[weab]

If it's an end plate connection, I wouldn't give it another thought. Otherwise, if you don't require the extra flange width, I'd say OK.

 

[rscassar]

I would detail an end-plate connection with a flat plate welded between the flanges and a stiffener back to the web. This would transfer the moment and shear into the columns flanges with minimal fabrication costs in my opinion.

 

[paddingtongreen]

Too many questions left to answer. A sketch would help.

Does the moment transfer mainly into the column or into a beam on the far side?

Are you using field bolted or field welded connections? or allowing either?

Would the remaining section of the beam be adequate if you trimmed it to fit between the column flanges?

Answer these and then there will be a chance for realistic discussion.

Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.