Mediocre vs Top Notch university 8

[RunSomewhere]

I am currently attending the University of Akron (Akron, OH) but although it's a stretch, I am considering trying to get in to Case Western Reserve University (Cleveland, OH).

"Its better to do mediocre at a great university than great at a mediocre university."

What's your opinion? Do you agree/disagree with the quote?

 

[excognito]

"As to some of the other issues raised, just bear in mind that the graduates of those "top-notch" schools needed to be "top-notch" applicants to have gotten accepted at those vaunted institutions. Therefore, their performance, post-graduation, might have little to do with their actual education, and more to do with their actual abilities, again, nature vs. nurture."

Can't speak for the Colonies, but in the UK, the 'top' universities do tend to have teaching in line with the quality of the candidates that they get.

A few points to bear in mind (some re-iterating what's been said earlier):

- Whilst any given individual *may* do very well and learn significant amounts at a Steerage rather than a 1st Class Stateroom institution, the chances are that they won't.

- The quality of the individuals you will interact with on the course is likely to be lower at No Hope U rather than Big Brains U. As my wife has opined, a good horn player will get dragged down into the mud in a 4th section Brass Band, but will get pulled up in a Championship Band (or get sacked!). The kind of people who make the better universities are more likely to be 'professional' in their attitudes, more interested in their subject and more demanding of the staff.

- The confidence of the individuals I've worked with from Oxbridge or Imperial (at least in Engineering) is usually higher and they have greater presence and impact - it rarely a surprise to me to find out that a good individual has gone to a good establishment.

- Never mind about your (potential) employers, how would *you* feel about it and how you think others would think about you? Ask yourself the "I wish I'd ..." before you get near some important life milestone. (exemplum: I'm glad I learned to fly when I did, late though it was, because I developed a medical problem a couple of years later that grounded me, but at least I'd done some flying and the number of people I meet who've always wanted to fly but not got round to it is saddening. OTOH, whilst I'm not unhappy with my education, good U with a quite specific course, I wish, in retrospect, that I'd taken a more general course at Oxbridge, both to get an improved education and to gain the general 'edge' that many of my Oxbridge (actually, mainly Cambridge) colleagues have compared to *most* individuals who seem equally intelligent and motivated but went elsewhere)

 

[cabraham]

"Its better to do mediocre at a great university than great at a mediocre university."

I would agree with the above quote. A middle of the pack student from a tough curriculum is usually better than the upper tiers of a soft one. Of course I always evaluate candidates as individuals, not as members of any "group".

I have a policy of quizzing applicants. I've done this for decades with no trouble at all. The questions consist of problems directly relevant to the job scope. Also, they are *already solved* problems. I never seek free advice through a quiz. It works very well. Students who bomb the quiz generally have little to show regarding academics, experience, oral interview skills, etc. Those who ace it were candidates who already looked very promising.

You would be amazed at some of the basic questions a lot of applicants miss. Not even in the ball park.

In summary, a tough curriculum, and being surrounded by the best of the best students forces a person to develop their full potential. There may be some individuals who are self starters and could work hard without tough competition. But, a class full of bright students provides diverse input. The papers, presentations, lab work, and answers in class are better with a bright class. Any individual is going to extract more in such a class.

To me, it isn't how big or expensive the university is, but rather, how tough. It just happens that MIT, Caltech, Stanford, Case, etc. are both prestigious and tough.

For the record, I went to Youngstown State for BEEE/MSEE (aka UCLA) back in the '70's. From 87-90 I taught at Univ of Akron. In 07 I returned to grad school at Case to pursue the doctorate. Case is very tough. But the Ph.D. is always tougher than BS or MS. YSU is tough as well. U of A is one I never studied at, only taught there. I was not tough, not easy. Some of my former students love me, others hate me, and some are ambivalent.

A highly motivated individual will find a way to succeed. A prestigious school gives a good head start, but after 5 to 10 yrs. in the field, the best individuals rise in spite of prior circumstances. Does this help?

Claude

 

[youngstructural]

Lol... A star for you excognito; A star for you!

I definately was not discussing foot-fall lifting runs...

;0)

Cheers,

YS

B.Eng (Carleton)
Working in New Zealand, thinking of my snow covered home...

 

[Tunalover]

How does one define a "top notch" university? What most people go on are the surveys in magazines such as USN&WR. Those surveys are taken from among academic peers who care (invariably) more about the faculty talent pool and the quantity and quality of research going on there. Note that this has NOTHING to do with education the students get.

I went to a so-called "stellar" university back in the 80's where is appeared that the profs viewed teaching as more of a burden than a privilege. For example, there were 50 or more guys in a senior level machine design course and the course was taught by a graduate student who know a lot about stress analysis but not so much practice and wisdom on the subject. As another example, there were no teacher evaluations to fill out at the end of the courses. It was obvious the faculty tried to weasel out of the teaching part of the job whenever possible by offloading the work to graduate students or junior faculty. Things have maybe changed by now but I can only report on my own experiences and impressions.



Tunalover

 

[juntin]

"A highly motivated individual will find a way to succeed. A prestigious school gives a good start, but after 5 to 10 years in the field, the best individuals rise in spite of prior circumstances"... very well said CABRAHAM.

I am an Industrial Engineer here in the United States for almost 10 years now but I didn't come from any of the prestigious university in this country. I got my education from my home country which is the Philippines. While I understand where the Companies are coming from, and why they wanna hire somebody from a prestigious university, I also agree with what StructuralEIT has stated "while I agree that on average, top tier school students may be smarter,that is just a general rule of thumb and every person should be evaluated based on their own merits."

Success cannot be determined by what school you have graduated from ,rather by how prepared you are when great opportunity comes your way.In my case, a great opportunity came and I was well prepared even though that preparation didn't come from one of the prestigious university here in the United States.

Kristine
Aquinas University Of Legazpi
Legazpi City,Philippines