Mechanical Engineers Scope of Responsibility

[fayazdin]

Hello folks,
I am a mechanical engineer (ME). I have designed serveal plumbing systems for building. We always design plumbing system inside the building and terminate our design 5-feet from the building, where a civil engineer (CE) picks up and runs with the utility (water, sewer)lines.

I want to know if this magic figure "5-feet" from the building is an unwritten rule to differenciate between ME and CE responsibilities or is there an engineering LAW that defines the responsibilites of MEs and CEs?

A Plan examiner is making me analyze water system for the entire strip mall and this is only a tenant improvement project for a small store.

 

[DonPhillips]

2007 Ohio Plumbing Code (based on 2006 IPC)

104.1 General. The building official in a municipality, township, or county, whose building department has been certified by the board of building standards, pursuant to Section 103, shall enforce provisions of the rules of the board and of Chapters 3781. and 3791. of the Revised Code, relating to construction, arrangement, and the erection of buildings or parts thereof as defined in the rules of the board in accordance with the certification except as follows:
1. Fire. The fire marshal or fire chief of municipal corporations or townships, having fire departments, shall enforce all provisions of the rules of the board relating to fire prevention.
2. Health. The department of health, or the boards of health of city or general health districts, the division of industrial compliance of the department of commerce, or the departments of building inspection of municipal corporations, townships, or counties shall enforce such provisions relating to sanitary construction.
3. Sewage and drainage system. In accordance with Section 3781.03 of the Revised Code, the department of the city engineer, in cities having such departments, the boards of health of health districts, or the sewer purveyor, as appropriate, shall have complete supervision and regulation of the entire sewerage and drainage system of the jurisdiction, including the building sewer and all laterals draining into the street sewers. Such department or agency shall have control and supervision of the installation and construction of all drains and sewers that become a part of the sewerage system of the jurisdiction and shall issue all the necessary permits and licenses for the construction and installation of all building sewers and of all other lateral drains that empty into the main sewers. Such department or agency shall keep a permanent record of the installation and location of every drain and sewerage system of the city.
4. Enforcement. This section does not exempt any officer or department from the obligation of enforcing any provision of the rules of the board.
The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code.

SECTION 202 GENERAL DEFINITIONS

BUILDING DRAIN. That part of the lowest piping of a drainage system that receives the discharge from soil, waste and other drainage pipes inside and that extends 30 inches (762 mm) in developed length of pipe beyond the exterior walls of the building and conveys the drainage to the building sewer.

BUILDING SEWER. That part of the drainage system that extends from the end of the building drain and conveys the discharge to a public sewer, private sewer, individual sewage disposal system or other point of disposal.


Typically, the civil's take them from just outside the building to the public system.




Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[willard3]

Say what?

This is surely not in response to the question asked.

 

[DonPhillips]

Sure it is - in Ohio, the magic number is 30". He was looking for something besides some unwritten rule.


Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[Wareagl487]

Willard3 -

What is outlined by Don is what sections of the code are applicable for work in relation to the building foot print - "sewers" vs. "drains".

The scope of each disciplines responsibilities (ie 5 feet past building perimeter) should be defined in your proposal/contact with the architect. IMO, 5-feet is an arbitrary distance and can be any thing you want it to be. You just have to follow the applicable code sections when you extend past the 30" mentioned above.

At my present firm, our standard proposal/contract is 5 feet. But at another firm I worked with, it was not uncommon for us to design the water/sewer/storm all the way to the connection to the public utility.

Andy W.

 

[EddyC]

Perhaps you should direct the plan examiner to the civil engineer who is going to verify the adequacy of the entire mall system?

 

[DonPhillips]

It does not work that way. The owner is responsible to show compliance with the code and it is not up to the plans examiner to chase down the answer to the question. I am sure the correction letter lists what is missing and the applicable code section that give him the right to ask the question. The ME needs to chase down the owner for additonal services (if the agreement was detailed enough) and sub it out to a civil, or find the civil to get the information needed by the plans examiner.

Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[fayazdin]

Thank you all.
It turned out to be an interesting discussion. I guess I will have to add "5-feet limits from the building structure" in my proposals.
This issue costs me 10s of hours on every project where the city calls for detailed water analysis.

Thank you all again