Looking for advice from engineers in DE, VA, NC, PA and OH 1

[Mack454]

I am not sure if this is the place to post this, but this site is a great resource for info and I did not know where else to turn.

I have been a PE here in NJ for a few years now and attend quite a # of planning/zoning board meetings. In NJ, these meetings are held at night (usually starting around 7:30PM) and can go as late as midnight in some townships. These meetings are conducted even if you have a 100 percent conforming plan (I am in Land Development).

I was thinking of moving out of NJ to somewhere where I can own a little more property for lower than or similar money I am spending now. I realize salary varies from area to area, so that will be a separate issue I will have to research. What I am looking for is other engineers in the US, how are meetings held in your state?

For example, I was told (please correct me if the info I was told is incorrect) that in Virginia, if you have a total conforming plan (no variances), you basically just go back and forth with the township professionals and then move forward to construction documents. I have been told that other states have similar meetings like Jersey, but are held during the day.

I am not sure where I would like to move at this very moment. A couple of areas I have looked at are PA, Delaware, Virginia, North Carolina and Ohio. In NJ, the attorney does a brief explanation of the application, and then I basically to everything else (site conditions, landscaping, lighting, utilities, etc) unless we have a traffic engineer for the project, then they do a brief overview.

Any input/suggestions would be appreciated.Thanks
James

 

[TerryScan]

In Delaware, meeting times vary from county to county...I suggest you research county websites- most publish their schedules.

 

[Mack454]

Thank you. Does DE require testimony on all site applications, even totally conforming applications? We have been part of plenty of applications that are variance free and still denied by the planning board because someone does not like the look of the house the developer is going to use.

Then the applicant goes to court and has it overturned. I my mind, the reason an ordinance is put together is to create the limits for an application. If a developer creates a site within these limits, the planning board should not have a say.

 

[LHA]

I've attended PC and Supervisor/Commissioner meetings in southcentral PA for 7 years. I have never heard of one occuring during the day. The members are either volunteers, or paid minimally, so all have other jobs. But Terry is right, the larger ones have schedules, agendas, minutes, etc. on their websites.

Long, complex legislative mumbo-jumbo follows; but, bottom-line, I would guess you will find that in any state in the US, either the county or muni will have a Planning-level review legislatively required.

Per PA Muni Planning Code, all plans - even conforming ones - must be presented in a public meeting. This forces the gov't officials to act one way or another on the record, and lets the public comment on the record. The gov't is empowered to appoint a Planning Commission, and I believe (but don't have MPC handy) that formation of, and consultation with a Planning Commission is required, but might not be. In any case, if a PC is formed, they must comment on the plan, in an advisory capacity, on the record and the gov't must acknowledge this advise, but doesn't have to follow it.

Engineering is the practice of the art of science - Steve

 

[BelspringKen]

I am in Virginia. The planning and zoning commission meetings in my area are at night. Sometimes they run late.
The localities present all the development plans at a public meeting, even conforming ones.

 

[Mack454]

Sorry for the stupid ?, but when you say localities, do you mean the developer's team?

When I was in Florida last year on vacation they were running some PB meetings on the local television channel. Each case began with the attorney giving a 2 minute intro, then the board engineer gave the board the summary of the application, variances, etc. All the developer's architect, engineer, etc did was answer questions, much different than in NJ where we the developer's team do everything.

 

[BelspringKen]

Typically the engineer (working for the developer) is there to answer questions raised during the meeting.

 

[Mack454]

That sounds like the meeting would be much more efficient that way, I wonder if other states are like that.

Like I mentioned, I end up giving the board a whole summary of the site, what is there now, what we plan to do, how we designed the site, etc including all permits and variances. This can go on for 20-30 minutes on a decent sized job. Then the architect follows, then the traffic engineer, and last the planner. I always felt that the plans and applications are generally pretty self explanatory and if someone on the board had a question or needed clarification, that would be the only reason me as an engineer should be there, to help clarify the application and provide answers to possible concerns. But every town here in NJ that I have been in front of requires this type of testimony.

 

[TerryScan]

Mack,

To answer your question regarding Delaware...I work in the lower counties (Kent & Sussex). Generally: totally conforming commercial site plans would not have a public meeting. Major subdivisions, and any variances, or rezonings would have a public meeting.

 

[Mack454]

I have been reviewing some of the online ordinances for counties in VA and NC, along with meeting minutes for some of the boards.

It appears that most (at least the counties I looked through) require a public meeting for subdivisions, and what appears site plans that have variances. It looks like site plans that are conforming are submitted to the professionals and all issues are worked out with them.

Those applications that are in front of the board are generally summarized by the board engineer of zoning official and the developer's architect and engineer are there just to answer any ?s of the board or public. Some counties also seem to limit the time for testimony (like 20 mins). That would really make things more efficient than NJ where I have been 2nd on the agenda before and watched the entire night get used by the first application. Those are the worst.

Thank you all to have replied and helped me understand a little better how things are done in other states. NJ has a board for each municipality (500+ I think) and some are alright, but other boards make the process torture.

 

[LHA]

Only 500 Muni's. You're lucky, PA has ove 2,500! Each its own little fiefdom, each re-writes the one-and-only-absolutely-correct way to do everything from measure a lumen from a lightpole to calculating qty of runoff.

Engineering is the practice of the art of science - Steve

 

[Mack454]

Ouch!

Exactly, each Township thinks they have the "grand" solution for drainage or traffic. There is no consistency here in NJ due to this, which makes designing sites different for each town. The pro to this is there is little repetition which makes each job different and "new". The con is the guess work over how the township or board of that municipality is going to review the application. The worst feeling is coming up with a design that works and is very cost efficient, then the board shoots it down because they like things done "their" way, even though this contradicts the state regulations.

 

[scitanul001]

LHA is right on the money. The meetings, requirements, and hoops you'll have to jump through in PA vary with the municipality you're going to present to. Ideally, you'll look at obtaining a Land Development application for the appropriate county, an NPDES permit, and possibly an Highway Occupancy permit through PA DOT (if your plans require). After all of that, you then begin the task of obtaining your permit in the municipality where you plan to develop. It's kind of ironic that after you have achieved "conformity" with the state, you are still at the mercy of the municipality, their engineer and members of the zoning committee.

Good luck on your quest!