Limits on Civil Engineers designing multiple culverts

[TMaque]

Are civil engineers limited to designing multiple culverts of less than 20 feet? The bridge inspection people call this a bridge for inspection purposes. Does this limit civil engineers to designing multiple culverts less than 20 feet wide, when measured along the centerline of the road? Does a structural engineer have to be used for culverts 20 feet wide or more?

 

[hokie66]

I think your question must be location related, and you didn't tell us where you are or where the work is located. Bridges and culverts are both civil engineering work in most of the world. Structural engineers ARE civil engineers.

 

[TMaque]

Location is Alabama and here all engineers are simply engineers whether electrical, mechanical, chemical, etc. Our certificates and stamps do not differentiate. But, we must practice only in areas of our experience and training.

Structural engineering is generally considered a specialty and engineers who want to practice that specialty often get their Masters Degree in Structural and have expertise primarily in that.

"General civil engineers", in my experience, tend to have expertise in a broader spectrum of civil engineering such as subdivision design, lift stations, site design, hydraulics and hydrology, roads/highways, etc., and don't do heavy structural design.

Back to the issue of my question:

The American Society of Civil Engineers in their Bridge Inspection documents define a series of culverts that measure 20 feet or more along the centerline of the road as a "bridge" with regard to inspections.

I know a "structural engineer" who is trained in Brige Inspection, who seems to hold the belief that culverts 20 feet wide along the centerline of the road must be designed by a structural engineer.

I am wondering if that is a commonly helf belief among engineers who do primarily structural engineering.

Thanks.

 

[dicksewerrat]

What are you trying to do? Build a road or put a river in a pipe? One culvert or a group of smaller ones? It may make a difference.

Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.

http://WWW.amlinereast.com

 

[bimr]

Regarding "But, we must practice only in areas of our experience and training."

Haven't you answered your own question?

A bridge design is generally the work of a Civil Engineer. Never heard of any limitation as to the scope of work. On a typical bridge project, the Civil Engineer may be assisted by a Civil Structural Engineer, a Civil Geotechnical Engineer, and/or a Civil Hydrologist depending on the complexity of the project.

General Civil Engineers typically lack specialized engineering skills that are obtained with advanced degrees and end up doing mostly municipal work. The proverbial jack of all trades and master of none. A General Civil Engineer may be able to handle a small bridge design but may not be comfortable on a larger bridge.

Reading between the lines, your structural engineering friend probably wants you to subcontract a portion of the work to him.

 

[TMaque]

Thanks to each of you for taking time to respond.

 

[beej67]

Alabama's pretty close to the Wild West in my experience. I can't imagine things being particularly strict there regarding this sort of thing.

So does he contend that a general civil can't show a multiple barrel box culvert on his plans, going off a DOT standard detail?


Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[bridgebuster]

It was the FHWA that mandated the 20' rule.

 

[TMaque]

Thanks for the correction about the 20' rule.

 

[francesca]

In Indiana, any culverts over 20' along CL (which would be a smaller diameter if the culvert was skew) had to be modeled as a bridge HYDRAULICALLY (so HEC-RAS instead of HY-8) and then went to the structural (civil) engineers to dot and cross the CON/SPAN design. The issue seemed more scour-related than structural analysis-related... but then most bridge failures are from scour.

 

[TMaque]

Thanks, francesca. I appreciate that policy oriented reponse It is very helpful.

Can you tell me if that is an Indiana DOT policy for DOT funded projects only, or does it apply to all projects in the state?

 

[jgailla]

In Florida, any road with a culvert over 20 feet long is considered a bridge and must be registered with the DOT. They will review the design as well before registering.
I assume this is a federal rule, but I never took the time to confirm.

 

[cvg]

most state DOT's keep pipe culverts separate from the boxes and bridges. The boxes are included in the bridge list. But the only requirement for design is that you are qualified with regards to experience and training. A box culvert with a 20 foot span would not be a standard design and in my opinion, I would want a structural engineer, preferably one with bridge design experience to design it.

 

[jgailla]

cvg,
As usual, you are correct. We should be self policing.
If you are qualified to do something, good.
A man has to know his limitations.